Newsgroups: alt.politics.ec,sci.lang
Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!rochester!udel!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.indirect.com!bud.indirect.com!stevemac
From: stevemac@bud.indirect.com (Pascal MacProgrammer)
Subject: Languages in the EC
Message-ID: <D3uEG3.337@indirect.com>
Sender: usenet@indirect.com (Internet Direct Admin)
Organization: Orbital Mind-Control Lasers
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 15:45:38 GMT
X-Disclaimer: Disagree if you like, but I'm never wrong.
Lines: 81

Not so very long ago, ccardona@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Maelstrom) said...

>I dont understand this??? 

  Yes.

>How can proponents of Esperanto say that it is easier to learn and yet a
>"real" language.

  Because those are the facts.

>If it were a real language it would be just as complex and thus just as
>hard or easy to learn. 

  That's true, if you define "real language" to be "a complicated 
language".  Esperantists use a more reasonable definition of language:  a 
means of communication.  There's no =necessity= for complication.
  <Honesty mode ON>
  I have changed the word "complex" to "complicated" for a reason. 
Esperanto is becoming more complex, in the sense that the vocabulary is
growing, and the grammar changing a bit, so that more topics can be 
discussed.  But there is a genuine effort among Esperantists to attempt 
to do this in a restrained fashon, to prevent the language from breaking 
into dialects.
  The near-absolute regularity of grammar and high degree of regularity 
in word-building allow complexity of expression without the need for the 
complications of exceptions and illogical expressions.

  Here's a simple example of regularity of word-building:

    Eng ---> Esp        Eng ---> Esp
    ---      ---        ---      ---
    ox       bovo       sheep    s^afo
    bull     virbovo    ram      virs^afo
    cow      bovino     ewe      s^afino
    calf     bovido     lamb     s^afido
    beef     bovaj^o    mutton   s^afaj^o
    herd     bovaro     flock    s^afaro
    cowboy   bovisto    shepherd s^afisto
    pasture  bovejo     fold     s^afejo

  Now then, if I know these words, and then find out that the word for 
'pig' is "porko", I assume (rightly) that I automatically also know the 
words for 'boar', 'sow', 'piglet', 'pork', 'herd of pigs', 'swineherd', 
and 'pigpen'.  If I learn that 'chicken' is "koko", then I know the words 
for 'rooster', 'hen', 'chick', 'chicken (on the plate)', 'flock of 
chickens', 'chicken rancher', and 'henhouse'.
  And if I run into a word such as "sonserpentaj^o", I can figure out 
that it means 'rattlesnake steak'.
  This vocabulary-reduction reduces the size of the root vocabulary 
without sacrificing expressiveness.

  New thoughts can be expressed in Esperanto.  For example, someone asked 
recently on <soc.culture.esperanto> what the Esperanto terms are for 
'pop-up menu' and 'pull-down menu'.  There may already exist terms for 
these, and someone will answer.  There are certainly people who =don't= 
know what the terms are (if they exist), but will make some up.  If the 
made-up ones work, they'll live; otherwise, they'll die.  We'll see what 
happens.
  What's the term for 'byte'?  I've seen "bajto", but that's not a very 
expert coining, and I expect it to die.  I've seen "bitoko", which is more 
logical, and appears to be catching on; it's a compound, literally a 
'bit-eight'.
  How do you say 'log on' and 'log off'?  This was discussed some time 
back, and there were a lot of suggestions.  The ones that appear (so far) 
to have caught on are "saluti" and "malsaluti"; I've seen them used in 
instructions on how to operate parts of the Internet ("la Interreto").  
This is simply an expanded usage of "saluti", meaning 'to salute', 'to 
greet', 'to say hello'.  (And the "mal-" prefix simply creates a word 
with the exact opposite meaning.)

  The real strength of this method of word-building is that it involves
people from widely varied linguistic backgrounds.  If a given coining is
too anglocentric, it won't be understood by Orientals, and a more neutral 
(and logical) term will find greater acceptance.

-- 
                              ==----=                    Steve MacGregor
                             ([.] [.])                     Phoenix, AZ
--------------------------oOOo--(_)--oOOo----------------------------------
          You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish!
