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From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Subject: Re: Languages in the EC
Message-ID: <D3wzqz.F5A@cwi.nl>
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Organization: CWI, Amsterdam
References: <HINSENK.95Feb9113657@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA> <D3tDoq.C2t@cwi.nl> <3hilsv$cfh@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 01:20:59 GMT
Lines: 75

In article <3hilsv$cfh@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> rison@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk writes:
 > En la artikolo <D3tDoq.C2t@cwi.nl>, Dik T. Winter <dik@cwi.nl> skribis:
 > > Why would it be a bad idea to force education in Esperanto on children
 > > now?  That is easy, if the second language in Dutch schools for 10
 > > year old chlidren would transfer from English to Esperanto they would
 > > have no way to make use of that language, while their learning of
 > > English can be made useful now.  Esperanto can not replace their English
 > > learning, so somthing has to go.  What?
 > 
 > If the second language in all EU schools became Esperanto (or at least,
 > Esperanto were added to the languages being taught), children would
 > have more than enough opportunities to make use of it!

If it was added to what they had to do now they have not enough time left.
So either it should replace English, or something else has to go.  What?
...
 > > When I was 13 I also made a start with Esperanto.  I dropped it.  The
 > > reason was that it was too much with my 3rd year French (at that times
 > > children could start with French rather than English when they were 10),
 > > 1st year English, 1st year Latin, and German coming the next year.
 > 
 > Was the Esperanto being taught at school, or were you doing it on your
 > own?

On my own, enough languages at school already, as I wrote.
...
 > The question is: how much energy was expended into getting this
 > `reasonable knowledge of English, French and German'?

7 years French, 5 years English, 4 years German, each about 2/3 hours
weekly.
 > 
 > Further, do we merely want to `get by' with our neighbours, or
 > do we actually want to be able to enter into dialogue with them?

Yup, that is the first step.
...
 > > Now what if Esperanto became compulsory.  Children would understand
 > > television shows only when they are much older (and have acquired
 > > enough knowledge of English),
 > 
 > Er, no.  Again, *if* all children started to learn Esperanto, *then*
 > there'd soon be a market for TV shows in Esperanto.

How soon is soon?  I think: forget it.  If from the next school year all
10 year old children started to learn Esperanto rather than English, when
would you think the Walt Disney company would first come out with its first
film in Esperanto?  And when would Esperanto television shows start to come?
Note that in that case your market in 1996 would only be the 10/11 year old,
by 2006 it would be the 10/21 year old.  A market for *some* TV shows, yes,
so they have to wait quite some time.
 > 
 > > when crossing the border they would
 > > have a bad time making themselves understood with Esperanto
 > 
 > Er, no.  Again, *if* all children started to learn Esperanto, *then*
 > they'd have no problems finding someone to speak it with over the border.

Do you really think that a 10/13 year old crossing the border would
easily meet somebody of the same age?  My experience is: no.
 > 
 > > (even my
 > > daughter got herself understood when asking a question in a shop in
 > > Stockholm; try that with Esperanto).
 > 
 > Irrelevant.  We're discussing the possibilities for the future.

It is relevant.  If she had had Esperanto in stead of English she would
have had no possibility to make herself understood!  Even when all
children of her age had had Esperanto.  The problem is that when you
switch from English to Esperanto you lose the possibility to easily
communicate with older people in those countries.
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland, +31205924098
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
