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From: rte@elmo.lz.att.com (Ralph T. Edwards)
Subject: Re: Acquisition of phonemes thfough foreign influences
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References: <43q7i7$93b@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <43skn7$q3l@netsrv2.spss.com> <rte-2509951127070001@mac-118.lz.att.com> <446odb$28j@netsrv2.spss.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 14:57:51 GMT
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In article <446odb$28j@netsrv2.spss.com>, markrose@spss.com (Mark
Rosenfelder) wrote:

> In article <rte-2509951127070001@mac-118.lz.att.com>,
> Ralph T. Edwards <rte@elmo.lz.att.com> wrote:
> >In article <43skn7$q3l@netsrv2.spss.com>, markrose@spss.com (Mark
> >Rosenfelder) wrote:
> >> zh was acquired from French; so was v (as a phoneme-- the sound existed
> >> between vowels, but not at the beginning of words).
> >
> >Time out.  French does not have /Z/ in any of the words cited, so English
> >couldn't have acquired /Z/ from French in these words.  As far as I know,
> >French did not have /Z/ at the time most of these words were borrowed,
> >but had /dZ/ where modern French has /Z/.  Only much more recent borrowings
> >from French have /Z/.  Borrowings from 11-13th century have /dZ/ for modern
> >French /Z/.  The most likely source of /Z/ is /z/ +/j/ -> /Z/.
> 
> I'll grant you that the most likely source of [Z] is [zj]; but why would
> the [Z] become phonemic?  Very likely, I would think, due to the relatively
> recent importation of French words such as _mirage_; since [Z] can now
> contrast with [dZ] word-finally (cf. _raj_), the [Z] in words like 'measure'
> got reinterpreted as phonemic /Z/.

Why reinterpreted?  Once the shift has occurred, it's already a phoneme.
disclosure-discloser.  On this native base new borrwings may occur.
I'm not a believer in the theory that we carry around some sort of underlying
structure that recapitulates the phonological history of the language.
That is I think measure is stored as /mEZR/ not /mEzjR/ with sound shift
applied.

-- 
R.T.Edwards rte@elmo.att.com 908 576-3031
