### Amway: The Untold Story

## Your Comments, Part 48

(11/97)

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Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.

This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.

[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]

`Dear Mr. Schwartz,`

I'm just happy to say that we burned out on Amway ourselves without having alienated hardly any of our friends...just buying $200 worth of products (like robots) every month including some vitamins that are still not opened (because their purchase pushed us over the magic $200 so we could get our $6 bonus. Let's see $6/200 is 3 percent. Where's the big savings?

Thank you for your web site.

The following statements appear pretty obvious:

1. Somebody who is trying to recruit you to sign up with Amway needs you more than you need him (in fact he needs you desperately!); and

2. The person trying to recruit you has already proven that he has no business judgment whatsoever.

It seems to me the best response to a recruiter would be to agree to sign up, provided that the recruiter - your own prospective "upline" - pay not only all sign up and other fees payable to Amway on your behalf, but also a fee (of, say, $1,000) directly to you! Your agreement, in return for the fee paid to you, would be something vague - to merely peruse and consider the opportunity for a period of time, with any substantive action on your part being entirely optional. If the recruiter balks at this, simply throw back at him all the rah-rah nonsense he has already been persuaded by: that he has to pay out now to build up his business and have his dreams come true later, etc.

After all, these recruiters who have already signed up with Amway have demonstrated their eagerness to conduct "business" entirely on terms dictated to them by others and in the process give away a lot of money for nothing. If they're going to come pester you, why not let it happen on these same terms? In that sense, you truly would be joining Amway.

Thank you very much for the insightful info on your web site. My cousin and her boyfriend recently joined up with Amway and tried to get myself and my wife interested. We live in Canada so we were not exposed to Amway nearly as much as in the States. I was very surprised to see all of the crap that goes on with this "opportunity". I have printed out nearly ALL of the info on your site and plan on giving it to my cousin before they get too deeply involved in it. Again, thank you for this information, it is VERY much appreciated.

Great to have this info available to gulliable chaps like me

AMWAY...........SUCKS !!!

Just needed to vent- Thanks.

To whom it may concern:

I almost fell for it! I was suppossed to go to a meeting on Saturday November 8, 1997 in *. I was approached by a man who worked with my father. He called me one night a few weeks ago and just told me to listen to a man that would tell me everything on how to be successful and "FREE". I invited him to my house, not knowing what in the world he was trying to sell me. He would not tell me what the plan was over the phone. That made me skeptical from the start, if this is such a good plan than why aren't you saying anything particular about it?

So, he came over one evening and laid it all out for me. And finally told me that it was Amway. I'm only 28 years old, and have never heard of Amway, but my God the thought of paying off all of my debt in a year and a half, how could I refuse? Than he came over another evening, this time with his wife. She gave me some samples and then they told me to go to the local hotel by the highway and see a meeting. Well I did, and I hit a deer on the way there almost totaled my new car that I only have had for not even two months. I went to the meeting shaking in my shoes about my accident on the way up there. I sat at the meeting and met my father's friend finally. He told me he has tried so many "Get Rich Quick" ideas that have failed him and he was out thousands of dollars. This was the only plan that he has seen for so cheap that really worked. He was only in it for two months. I hope that I can save him. Anyway, what really bothered me is the fact that these people were so friendly. Why would these people want to show me how to make money? So friendly.

Then my father's friend and the "Main Distributor" came over to my house the following Sunday and told me to not hang around losers, that I'm better than that and I'm so smart for wanting to do this. I'm a dreamer and I have what it takes. So for a few days I listened to the many tapes and fought it over in my head for days. Should I or shouldn't I?

Then I remembered that I have the Internet! Thank God. I punched in the word Amway and viola! All kinds of information at my fingertips. I almost signed my life away. So be careful! It's a shitty world and if someone offers you true freedom think twice and say to yourself Is this Amway? Then run fast screaming that an Amway distrbutor is in town and is looking for victims.

Buyer Beware!

Dear Mr. Schwartz

I so apprecitate what you have accomplished with this web site. I am a 31 year old "single mother" of two. My life almost ended as a result of this "business cult". Had I known that what happened to me could have been dealt with in a court of law, I would have taken action against Amway myself. Amway was the beginning of the destruction of my marriage, and could have cost me and my ex-husband our lives.

This is why. My ex-husband and I were so pressured to attend a function in North Carolina (we lived in *), that I left my infant daughter, with a 17 or 18 year old daughter of someone in my upline. I felt so terrible leaving my child behind, but was told that I was doing it for her, and that going to this seminar was the most important one, and a must to secure the future of my family. Well, to make a long story shorter.....

The seminar left no time for sleep(a clever tactic for brainwashing), and when it was over, all I could think about was getting home to my baby! I missed her so much, and was so worried about her! I was also a lactating mother at the time, and my breasts were producing milk at lightening speed! I was in pain and suffering sleep deprivation. We drove the whole way to the seminar, and on the way back, I drove. I wanted so desparately to get home to my baby. I was so worried about her, and felt so horribly guilty for leaving her with a total stranger. But at the time, before the seminar, the pressure was so tremendous to get to that seminar, that I made myself believe(or they made me believe) that everything would be ok, and I was starting to feel more pressure to trust in my upline(all part of their tactics as you know).

Well, as all of my guilt for leaving my child, and the worry of if she was ok, became unbearable, the faster I drove that car. I had a terrible and terrifying wreck on that highway home, in which we were extremely lucky to have escaped certain death, had the incedent happened a fraction of a second sooner.

About the destruction of my marriage, well all I can say is I feel very strongly that Amway played a major role in it, and the reasons are too many and too involved to get into, but I'm sure you can imagine why, knowing the "business the way you do". I just know in my heart, that Amway was the start of the decline, and final break-up of my marriage.

I wish I had a computer all those years ago(about 8 years ago), and that someone like yourself had found what all was wrong with Amway, and I could have been enlightened before it was too late. If I could bring a lawsuit against Amway, believe me, I would not hesitate one minute to do so. That company cost me dearly in many ways, and I just feel very embarrased and ashamed, that I was gullible enough, and naive enough to let them control me for so long. My ex and I put a solid 3 years of our lives into that so called business, and let me tell you, we did all the tapes, and tried to attend all the major functions, and we did everything we were supposed to do, and nothing worked. We lost so much money, and friends, and respect. I am very thankful we didnt lose our very lives............or did we?

I have been reading a few of the comments posted by your detractors and am sincerely shocked by their ignorance.

And just as I recover from this shock, I am dumbfounded yet again by the realization that Amway disciples regard THEMSELVES as enlightened. Ignorance and arrogance, indeed. What a volatile combination!

The overwhelming majority of the pro-Amway posts completely lack originality of prose and clarity of thought. Then, the authors of said posts compound their literary handicaps with poor spelling and terrible syntax.

I too have been prospected and have experienced similar events to yours. I even tried to "save" a few people on my way out. With no success, unfortunately.

It felt bad that I was unable to spare my friends the financial woes chasing the Amway pipe-dream.

But on the other hand, they brought it on themselves. They gave into greed. Greed told them that it didn't matter what they did as long as it made them rich. As if to say that bad behaviour is justified by the amount of money you derive from it. As if to say that dignified behaviour is a relative concept based on profit. Astonishing.

I do quite well in the business I own and somehow I've avoided trampling on friends and relatives to achieve success. Isn't this the whole reason for starting your own enterprise in the first place? So you can succeed on your own terms without compromising your values?

The Amway people sacrifice this dream in order to chase the illusion that they have succeeded on their own terms. If they achieve any success at all, they do so by following someone else's twisted values, direction and influence.

That's not what I call a "business opportunity."

BTW, I was listening for the popping sound of my dream to an end of being enslaved by a large corporation who cares nothing about my future, but for some reason your lies never caused it to happen, maybe it's becuased I just finished listening to my $6 tape "talk's cheap" by Executive Diamond Jimmy Head....

I only have one simple question. What do you offer as an alternative to the problem the Social Security Administration acknologedgs, which is that 97% of americans are either Dead, Broke, or still working at the age of 65, or do you have one?

The actual AOL account names have been changed. This IM chat on AOL took place on the evening of Nov 9th, 1997.

Some of the text was edited to correct spelling and punctuation. Some of the text has been deleted because it either revealed personal information about the Amway rep or the text was not relevent to the Amway discussion. I eliminated about a paragraph of text involving a conversation about her dog "Chow-Chi" and my dog "Sparkles."

Please note that every time she is confronted with a common sense to counter her fabricated statistic... she changes her tack. She doesn't realize the hypocrisy of spouting off fake stats. She puts her common sense in the back of her mind. This seems very common when you present an Amway person with reality

AmwayWill: others to do the same. That's where the money is made. The is some money in tool sales, but not until you reach a certain level, and that is only 1/5 of your income.

Tyuratam: These guys had to be making more than that from the tapes to make the money to justify their claimed income. If their wealth, Amway's profits and their network was really growing at their claimed rate, it would exceed the North American & South American combined GNP in only 24 months.

AmwayWill: I don't know what claims they made, but the company is growing quite rapidly. You have to remember that the company is currently doing $40 billion in profit, with only 2.5 million distributors worldwide. And that's only people over the age of 18, think of the number of people approaching that age. I have no clue what the currently world population is, but I sure we're not even close.

Tyuratam: The last Amway statement I saw said something more like $4 billion in sales, not profit.

Tyuratam: $40 billion in profit would make Amway the most profitable enterprise known to mankind. Where can I get stock?

AmwayWill: I could have my figures wrong. Not really sure. A lot of times they don't want to admit that they get money from other sources besides down line sales because of what the down line buying the tools will think. It's hard to explain to someone that the tape they are being asked to buy is truly beneficial to their business and not just being promoted so I can make a profit.

Tyuratam: Yes, but I've never seen so many tapes in my life! Literally hundreds maybe thousands. And my friend gave a few to me and they just repeated the same stuff over and over

AmwayWill: Because that's the stuff the you need to have drilled into your head constantly. I don't know how many times I have been ready to quit for one reason or another and the only things that kept me going were tapes. There are some that are repeats, but you do get some sometimes that are completely original and have great meaning. To me anyway.

AmwayWill: Do you remember what tapes you got?

Tyuratam: Off hand, I don't

AmwayWill: Maybe the person giving you the tapes was very inexperienced and didn't give you something that would appeal to you. I give different tapes to different people in my group. One person needs more motivation, others need more training, while others just need dreams. It all really depends on that you were given. It could also depend on how open-minded you were at the time you listened to them. Where you looking for something wrong with them, or where you listening to what they were telling you.

AmwayWill: I'm not saying anything about you personally, I don't know you. I just know people.

Tyuratam: No, I listen critically, not pessimistically

AmwayWill: But you need to listen with your heart. I know that sound corny, but this business is not about facts and figures by about faith, belief and hope. I'm not really religious so that's not the type of faith I'm speaking of. Faith that it will work, belief that it can work and hope for the future. Again I know this sounds corny but that's really what it's about.

Tyuratam: But I have to call it like I see it. The math isn't there to support the claims.

There is no heart in business. People get trounced in business when they make decisions based on heart. There is no heart in math, that's the purpose of math, to help us overcome irrational decisions.

AmwayWill: If you based everything on logic and facts, no one would ever open a business. 95% of all business fail in the first year and 90% of all remaining business last past their first 5 years. If they do, they maybe okay. But ask yourself, if you didn't have a certain amount of faith, belief and hope why would anyone start a business?

Tyuratam: Actually, the figure is more like 85%-90% of all businesses fail in first five years. (1991-1992 data) If, by your claims, 95% fail in first year and you subtract 90% of the remaining, then less than 2% of all businesses make it past their first five years.

That would make gambling in Las Vegas a safer enterprise than starting a business.

Again, your numbers don't quite ring true.

I agree that hope and faith is important but only if tempered with logic.

You are spouting of facts and figures with your heart and look where that's getting you.

AmwayWill: True point. But not everything can be completely logical. Believe me. I'm a Computer Programmer, I think very logically. I have to . But to me this business isn't logic. I wasn't referring to running your business with heart, but taking the leap of faith and starting your business. The Amway business is just like any other business (sort of ) :-). It requires hard work and stable business practices just like a conventional business.

Tyuratam: how long have you been in Amway?

AmwayWill: Just under three years. Why do you ask?

Tyuratam: I'm curious as to when the investment pays for itself.

AmwayWill: It pays off when you start building your business. There is really no time limit. The new record for diamond has been set in 11 months 25 days. The longest I think is 25 years.

Tyuratam: Have you experienced a net profit after these three years?

AmwayWill: No. We've sat on our butts for the past almost 3 years. We're recently(past 2 weeks) begun to show the marketing plan more, but still don't show it enough.

AmwayWill: Like I said, its just like any other business. You don't work you don't get paid. It's just that simple.

Tyuratam: I see, but I can see how you might not have the time to show the plan. Programming is a big time consumer. What do you code in?

Tyuratam: And you gotta spend the time programming to pay the bills.

AmwayWill: Right now Pick Basic with some Visual Basic thrown in. Formerly a COBOL programmer. My time is not the problem. My husband works evenings. He can't show the plan if he's working and I don't want to do it myself. I want him to take the lead if this one. So I wait.

The conversation at this point became too vapid for even me to handle, so I said my goodbyes and signed off.

Dear Mr. Schwartz,

I agree with your evaluation of the Amway Corporation and especially its recruiting techniques. I was recently approached by a distributor, whom I beleive identified me as a prospect due to the fact that I am possibly considering a change in careers and some further schooling. I was completely ignorant of the entire deal with Amway and since their approach is not to present what they are trying to involve you in since "Amway has had negative press in the past" I had no idea what they were talking about. In fact the upline of my would be sponsor went so far as to tell me that very little of the business these two were involved in was actually Amway. The first real inkling I had that this was what it was was when the upline picked me up to go to this "Exciting, Awesome" convention in Austin, Tx his car was lined with Amway literature! The convention was downright scary and took on the dimensions of idol worship as we stood up for every ruby distributor and above who got on stage. Then we sang patriotic songs, said prayers that the divine guidance being offered by the Great One (a diamond distributor) would go straight to our little hearts, and chanted "Go Diamond". Good grief. I began to wonder when the statue of "Ba'al" would be wheeled out. Anyway. I decided later in the week based on the sacharine approach of the uplines and the obvious ignorance of my sponser (who I'm sure beleives me to be infected with "detailitus") not to sign up. I told my would be sponser this and later received a discomforting phone call from his upline during which I tried to be polite and express the fact that I just didn't have the time or inclination to sell Amway. That is about the time he asked me if I often quit things in the past--was this a trend in my life? I was at a loss. After that he had the gall to ask if someone could come by and sell me Christmas presents. At any rate they and their system is devious and preys on the weak-minded and disenfranchised. I am glad you are spending time and effort to debunk "The Business".

Thanks.

Friends of ours are just now trying to get us interested in amway. We are leery, but I did take the time to look at the magazine and watch one of the videos.

I immediately felt a weird sense of "cultism" in the language and activities associated with this company. I shared this feeling with our friends, who practically admitted that it does feel like that, but only because everyone is so positive and committed to what they are doing.

I read the comments from other interested folks about the cult idea. However, I am curious what makes you and others actually use this term. Have there been a lot of problems in this area? I guess I am just trying to get an overall sense of the history of this problem.

We have no intentions of getting involved, but I would be very interested to hear more about this company and what it is REALLY about.

Thank you.

bravo to you for exposing some of the things going on in "that company." although i don't think they intended it to become this way, they are certainly aware of it and have done nothing to stop it.

i actually spent 3 years actively. i am a cpa with loads of business and professional experience. the whole concept still makes sense to me, but that company bastardized it. you, however, have gone too far when condemning all companies in the industry. when i left, i joined another company with lots of honesty and integrity, and none of the negatives i experienced before. you ask for people to send information on some of these other companies. if you haven't thoroughly researched them, you should criticize the industry in general it's only fair.

you can judge success only on those who try. my company recognizes that most people (90%) will be only customers and not build a business. these people get superior, safe products at discount prices delivered directly to their door with a money-back, no questions asked, guarantee. and many of them get checks from the company even if they don't bring in any customers of their own.

so, there are some good and some bad, just like in any other industry.

incidentally, today i called someone i know in the brig and lita hart line. when we meet, they tried to get me to come back to their company, saying their line was different. i only called to find out the details of this lawsuit actually filed in a court by someone very big in the business. all they could do was blast the internet for publicizing all this "negative" stuff. then, they called later, spoke to my wife, and threatened to take me to court. boy, are these people spaced out. i speak to people involved with many companies, but nobody else acts like that. it would be a blessing for the industry to shake this all out.

Tell me,...

...what about the past dilemmas society has faced as a result of practices by other large corporations ?
...haven't most of those corporations had to change their ways and still remain well patronized by the public despite initial outcries ?
...instead of listening to motivational tapes, perhaps even more people should remain sitting...glued to the TV watching smut, violence, etc.... never giving up their remote.
...instead of thinking positively,...working towards attaining financial independence, more people should work traditional jobs, leave wealth to the corporate CEO's and perhaps reach down to the welfare system instead of up to free enterprise
...instead of hanging around and becoming friends with positive, ethical, ambitious people, perhaps more people should open their flip top cans and engage in activities such as chanting and grunting and yelling over some great move made by their favorite football, baseball, basketball, wrestling, boxing,..etc.. player.
...postive, motivational rallies should perhaps be replaced by obsessive, FANatical clubs for sports, music, etc..... that in no way mirrors the definition of a cult.
...maintaining family values and a hard work ethic, particularly if inclusive of spiritual practice of choice ---- should perhaps be abandoned as any dedication or strong belief in these "choices" indicate cult status.
...shouldn't all churches, synagogues, etc... be condemned for maintaining a cult following ( I suggest you look up cult in the dictionary) and cult like ritual practices such as communion, bar mitzvah's, marriage, etc.
...shouldn't all new Amway distributors just really resent that they have to start at the bottom and try to work themselves up to the top ( some making it and some not ), ... afterall- in traditional industry employees begin at an entry level in almost all positions and their performance guides whether they move up the ladder or stay at the bottom,....oops!... that kinda' sounds the same, doesn't it ?
...corporate structures don't resemble any form of a pyramid like Amway, because afterall - there's the little guy - like the janitor and clerk at the bottom and the big fat CEO at the top,....oops! there I go again sounding like I'm comparing apples and apples.

Perhaps if some of the friends and relatives of those people in the Amway business would open their eyes and their minds... they might discover there's really something to the changes their loved ones have made --- like positive improvements for themselves- financially and spiritually. Or is this what is feared ? ...that friends and relatives involved with Amway are actually out-growing them and their own fear of failure keeps them from trying to do the same ? I guess you can't fall very far if you never try climbing higher.

Good luck to you. I will hope you someday find a purpose beyond trying to convince others they should stay programmed into the traditional ruts they have been born to or fallen prey to. We all have the freedom of choice and the wonder of endless possibilities to grow and be a success. Of course, there will always be those who prefer to find the negative, sit and whine,... and blame the rest of the world for their lack of happiness.

Hi Sidney,

I happened upon your site as an accident. I have viewed your site and have come to several conclusions. Please keep in mind that I too was talked into joining Amway by a very good friend of mine who ruined his life (quit a $300,000/year job) to pursue Amway...and is now broke. He still insists that it is STILL the way to go and pitches the plan every chance he gets. I walked away from Amway after 5 short months. I am extremely successful and have the many benefits of life that Amway promises. These include waking up when I want, and doing what I want any day of the week, any time of the year. I have achieved this with anything BUT Amway. By reading some of the feedback you receive, here are my observations:

1. People who are for Amway are awfully defensive.
2. Many of the pro-Amway messages contain poor spelling and poor grammar.
3. Most of the messages say the same thing: The loser,dream stealing, negative, etc......
4. Most pro-Amway message senders are insecure enough with their association to post something here. If they were really successful, they wouldn't waste time posting a reply to your accusations.
5. Amway people are annoying.(Not an observation from your page.)

I must close with the fact that my uncle is involved in Amway, and he is extremely successful with it. He has been involved since the early '70's. He also still has his job as a ver high level executive with a Fortune 100 company. He is not annoying. He is filthy rich. Amway had some part in his financial success. He puts it at about 15%.

Those are my thoughts. I hope you find them helpful.

Have a great day!

Hi, there,

I am an Amway distributor from Warsaw, Poland. I trust you publish this letter, if so, only as a whole. Partial publisment is prohibited by me, the author and will be prosecuted by law as a violation of the author rights to this letter.

It is no my intention to create fear or hurt anybody - everybody has the right to have his own meanings and beliefs.

You report frequently on your site, that the distributors are forced to by tapes, books, and tickets. That is not the truth. I signed up log ago - in late 1994. Nobody, never, forced me to by a tape. The only what they say is that - the tapes ara available at a ceratin praice - you will need, of course and we show you, which ones are the best now. I dod not liten and did not buy any tapes. My business soon failed down and dissapear. But I stayed in the net, since I liked the products. So I was keeping buying them for my own usage. To my surprise, my neighebou started to buy them from me occasionally. He liked them. So I had one customer. Unfortunately - he left for another place. I started to look for ways to have another one customer. And I started to borrow tapes from my sponsor. Soon I had 5, 10, etc. people - business started to grow. No I buy the tapes, voluntairly. And I listen to 2-3 of them daily. Maybe my upline has some profit on it - so what?! My boss at work does not give me the holiday when I need them, only when it is convenient for him.. Now I have a group of about 220 people. Sonn shall be DD. I the thing I am proud the most, are my partners - wha are not critics - wha are achievers. Critics are everywhere. Any middle man is a critic. But Amway etc. teaches the principles of thinking big, positively and in favour of other people.

You are doing the bad, thing, Dear Author of this sie, of unknown name (I cannot see it at the WEB page and did not want top dig for it). Obviously you are ashame of your not ethic behaviour and are afraid to show your name.. Why? Amway will not hurt, neither me..

Please think back and do not steal peoples dreams.

Amway Distributor Going Diamond in Poland

dear sir,

I've been in amway for 8 months now. I feel I proceed with things cautiously. I found the people genuine and wonderfully positive. In the place I work, it is very negative. It is refreshing to have a set of friends that are positive and truely care about how you are doing.

I've read through some of your information but find that you may not know some things that you think you do. For example, I read somewhere that you have no problems returning items to KMart and other such places. That is true. But Amway has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Have you ever tried to return a pair of shoes you've wore for six months? A friend of mine did, and got his money back plus shipping. If I was to return a pair of shoes to the local store they would probably think I was crazy. What about a swimsuit? That's been done too. I can't do that with Dillard's or JCPenny's.

One other thing I wanted to address was in your cost comparison survey, why is it when you compared computers you didn't use the same computer? For Amway you used, I believe, Magnavox? and for your use, you used Gateway. Amway is affiliated with Gateway also.

Another thing I want to ask, is why in all this information did you not inform people that this company is FTC approved. I believe in the American system. I don't think the FTC would approve of a "pyramid" or any other company that would do what you described. The FTC says that this is one of the most ethical and moral companies in America and that it should be used as a "yardstick" to compare with other companies.

Something else I want to bring up is about the system. Amway has nothing to do with the system. They are completely separate from the system side yet you don't tell anyone this. Just a side note that I remembered. If your survey is accurate, I have found that each time you turn on your car it costs $5.00. That includes gas, maintenance, insurance etc. What would your choice be, either go to the store, hopefully it's only one, and spend $10.00 before you even pull out your checkbook, or have a delivery company bring you your things every week. I'm not sure what part of the country you're from, but in the Midwest it gets to 40 below in wind chill in the winter and up to 110 degrees heat index in the summer. I personally don't want to go out in this weather. Maybe you do.

I realize you'll probably never e-mail me back, but please give all the information, good and bad. If you want to be negative, that's fine but I'll be an Amway distributor for as long as they will let me. If for no other reason than to be around wonderful friends and positive people. One other thing, I have not lost any of my friends because I've been in Amway. My family is supportive but not in and my friends always ask me how I'm doing. I've simply opened up to more friends is all.

Thank you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After visiting your site maybe my wife will see that AMWAY DOES NOT represent Financial Freedom.. They (Amway) will be back @ our home Friday (11-14-97) @ 6:pm and I am ready ..Thanks to you (and others) site....

As a past Amway distributor, I am dissappointed in your one sided view of Amway documented from failure excuse poor people.

Fist of all, the "Support Material" is completely seperate from the Amway Corporation. And secondly Yager's downline is big MOSTLY because of Bill Britt's group within Yager's organization. All the support material I ever purchased was thru Britt not Yager, and always for the same price regardless of pin level! And most importantly, Tapes, Books, whatever are always OPTIONAL, you can be a distributor and never buy any support material, period. There are plenty of supportive upline who will loan you theirs so that you don't miss out on any of the info.

The bottom line is any sales support for any MLM is only as good as your upline no matter how hard a company tries to keep everyone informed and loaded with tools. The nature of the beast is to delegate FAQ's and other supportive info.

I am a "past" Amway distributor only because as a mother of four I wanted something I could do exclusively from my home, which Amway does not fulfill. I loved the people, the organization, and the corporation. I still use many of their products and consider some of the people I met thru Amway to be my best friends.

The Amway Corporation is by far the best network marketing corporation out there! Ask any foreign country or State Consumer Affairs office. You don't get that big and that successful without sincerely being worthy. But, Amway is not for everyone, such is life.

Why don't you go after the real bad guys. They are a dime a dozen and never worth billions!

To whom it concerns,

You,sir, are an idiot. I really enjoyed how you twisted things to make them seem illegal and impractical. I really enjoyed how you managed to leave out pertinent information about the products, leaving them to be poor quality and higher priced. Most of all, I really enjoyed how you only showed one side of the story and gave Amway no chance to correct your irresponsible and stupid mistakes. You obviously don't know as much about Amway as you think and you should really get your facts straight. Have you even bothered to find out the thousands of positive aspects of this corporation? Of course not! You're too busy slandering it. Well sir, you need to get a life and open your eyes to the whole picture. Thank you for your time.

Sincerly,

A pissed off AOL user

I don't see the big deal. I am an active Amway distributor, and I don't see the problem with it! I mean, of course it has it's flaws, but what company doesn't? And from reading some of the responses, I do believe the people are right. You are wasting your time on this page. If everyone wrote up a big page on how they got screwed over, the Internet would be nothing but complaint pages. I mean look at it this way, you know the stereos people pay $200-$500 dollars for? They make them in China for $10 or less. Everyone has to make a profit or no one could survive. That is what life is about.

S0 GET OVER IT!!! You call it a cult??? Is it because you do what your upline does? (hint hint buddy, you need to do what your upline does, that is why they are successful) So you mean if you talk to certain people and dress like they dress and act like they act and buy what they buy and do what they do you're considered to be in a cult? Hello!!! Don't teenagers do that? Kids in school? You don't see people going around calling them a cult!!! It really ticks me off that people like yourself even exist. So you don't think Amway is a great opportunity... WELL I DO!!! So since your so worried about scams and people trying to screw you over when in reality they are trying to help you, you better just take your ass in the house and keep it there for the rest of your life. Cause if you get out, people may just screw you over!!!

Go ahead and waste your time writing your dinky little page, while I am out making my wonderful money. Cause ya know, Amway is becoming more and more successful every single day, and I am going to be there to share the wealth and happiness!!! Sorry you'll miss it...

Sincerely,

A HAPPY AMWAY DISTRIBUTOR!!!!!

>Hey, I don't want to offend anyone, but please...where do you get your
>information. I am an amway distributor, i'm only 19, and no I am not
>successful yet. But...

>Amway has been around since 1959...1959. Probably before you were born.

Also before you were, too, I see. What's your point?

>Also, I bet you didn't know that the co-founder of amway held the most
>respected position on
>The Federal Trade Commission(FTC).

Bullshit, kid. Jay Van Andel was past president of the National Association of Manufacturers in the 1970s. So what? Also, *any* manufacturing company in the US can join this *private* association. It is by no means a stamp of legitimacy. You'd better check *your* facts out.

>Therefore, amway has been checked out and is obviously a valid and awesome
>bussiness opportunity.

Since your premise was false, so is your conclusion. Even if Jay was the past commissioner (or boss, or king emperor, or whatever you define to be the most respected position) of the FTC, does this prove that Amway was 'checked out'? Your reasoning is faulty.

>I have to go, but is you are going to make statements from
>hearing from others, you might want to read up first.

From someone who was in the business when you were still on Pablum: Go back to college. Spend your money there. It'll do you a world of good, and you won't spend your young years increasing someone else's net worth, like I did.

>I find it hard to belive that the proctor and gamble law suite I just read
>is not touched up just a little by you >or someone else. Is this the real
>untouched filed document?

>or have you (someone else)added a little to it?

Why don't you point out to Sidney, and all of us present, those sections that were 'doctored up'? The public has access to both sets of documents... Sidney's web page has been posted for months, and the lawsuit is likewise publicly accessible.

Why not do us all a public service by following through on this? Since you find it so 'hard to believe', I assume you are sufficiently motivated.

If you do not respond to this by posting the alleged doctoring that you postulated within 30 days (which should be enough time; if not, I'm sure that all present would agree to a reasonable extension to accommodate your schedule), then all who read this will know you for what you *really* are.

Your other honorable choice would be to issue a retraction of your charges and a public apology to Sidney (and to Proctor & Gamble) for stating unsubstantiated charges in an attempt to engage in 'smear' tactics and psychological warfare.

You choose, Sir. Think about this the next time you stand in front of your group as their leader and example.

Hail, Sidney!

After having the Duncans sweep through Western Washington with their own strain of the "virus of the mind" known as WWDB (Weird World of Deceptive Bullcrap), I imagine that Amway has pretty much run its course in this neck of the woods. I can only hope this applies equally to areas of the southeastern U.S. where the BRITT virus (Bigoted Republican Imbeciles Touting Tripe) is most prevalent. God help the next country Amway sweet-talks its way into with its twisted Western consumerism.

If I can spare one person the waste of time, effort, and money that Amway represents, I hope to do so by placing occasional ads in the local free tabloids that will point to your website. Something of the order, "Considering Amway? Do the REAL homework and check this out...."

By the way, I really appreciated what another reader had to say about the exorbitant prices of the Amway generics. Totally accurate. It's too bad the one thing that could have made Amway worthwhile for the little guy has turned out to be a false front contructed of imaginary "savings". Screw DeVos and VanAndel, and don't ever buy into the false dilemma that it's either Amway or mediocrity. Since I quit Amway, my income has more than doubled because I was able to put my creativity to worthwhile use again. And if everybody who isn't seeing results in Amway would do the same, they could look back in five years and rejoice at what they've accomplished.

Again, cheers!

Hi.

What's with the recent proliferation of positive amway experiences? Are they scared of this media? What a bunch of desperate losers.

Just had to get that off my chest!

Thanks Sidney.

Mr. Sidney I've been involved in the Amway bussines for a while in Argentina and I really think that u must be a sick person and I hope god have mercy with u when u die, I just can't figure out why u waste your time on this and hope u don't waste your life with this scam.... I'll pray for your soul.Have a nice day,

Mr. Schwartz,

You are a damn genious!

We have a (what used to be close) college friend that has become a cult member!

This site is a great public service.

While the concept of MLM makes sense to move product, the methods of operation of Amway using lies and half-truths are intolerable!

This is coming from a guy who has been given the "Ampitch" by more than a half a dozen people, even after I told them I was not interested in the Amway movement.

Keep up the good work, and we only hope that your message gets to the ones that really need it!

Have you considered 60 Minutes, 20/20, Nightline, or Prime Time Live?

I imagine with all the email you receive from the Amway-Befuddled you might get a little down once in a while. It's hard to have so many people actively dislike you and your work.

Sidney, you are doing a Good and Brave Thing. The Education you are providing is both vital and necessary. Keep it up.

Why are so down on Amway? I'm an immigrant to this country, and in seven years I've gone from making zero to over $100,000 per year (not in Amway, just my regular job). Did I do it by sitting home whining about free enterprise? No, I did it by going out there and working my butt off, and learning the skills I needed to get where I'm going.

I joined Amway a year ago, and so far, I've gotten out of it exactly what I put into it - nothing much. But what I have seen, is that if you follow the Yager system, you can spend approximately $10,000 to get to the point where you're making $250,000 a year, and up.

Now, if you don't want to follow the system, then don't. No one's forcing you to, and if you can come up with a better way to do it, then go ahead. Don't buy a single tape, or go to a single meeting. See how far you get. If you're as good as Dexter Yager, you'll maybe hit Emerald before you get stuck. Then what? Oh, maybe a system would be a good idea now, because you can't possibly help all those people by yourself, can you?

I've seen Amway work for those who put in the effort, and I've seen it not work. For people like me, who think we make too much money right now to need Amway, I've noticed that it can take longer. You need to find a reason to do this before it's going to work, just like everything else you do in life. I probably wouldn't be here today if I'd had a good job where I came from.

I think investing perhaps $10,000 to make it in Amway is a pittance. What other business can you invest so little money to make so much in the end? And yes, you will spend a lot of time doing this, if you do it right. So what? I know people who work 80-hour weeks now just to make what I make. The difference is, they'll still be making the same amount of money (roughly) in 5 years' time, and they'll still have to work 80 hours each and every week to get a paycheck. If I get out there and make Amway work, I'll have 50 extra hours a week to do what I like, and I'll have doubled my income, permanently!

Maybe it didn't work for you, but that's no reason to imply it won't work for others. Like anything else, 20% of the people do 80% of the work (except maybe on a farm!).

I wouldn't quit this business even if I never did nothing more than break even each year, and that's so easy anyone could do it.

I think maybe you'll put off some people with this site, but that's really no loss to Amway. It's really a loss for those people who could have made it big, and guaranteed a good life for themselves and their descendants, but will now spend it instead in mediocrity, watching TV and being one of the 95% of people who are dead, disabled, or broke at age 65 (US Gov't statistics).

Hi:

I have to admit I'm not making that much money, however I'm not putting to much effort into it. I refuse to let this interfere with my family. My husband refuses to participate in the membership of amway. However, he supports my choice. Being a mature, intelligent professional, I entered this business cautiously. I have to wonder why so many professionals enter this business. There has to be something in it. I know many that ARE making money. I have to admit that I have stopped the tapes, due to the nonsense that I heard on many of them. I know I have been scrutinized for this, but I have stuck to my decisions. I refuse to listen to "whiny, spine-less, southern wifes. " I also refuse to listen to sad stories. I have let my upline know. They feel I have that right to make my own choices. I know someone is loosing money on me, but I don't care. I'm in the business for myself.....and if I don't like certain things then that will be it for me. Right now I would like to give this a fair chance before I completely give it up. I'm not looking to make a million....that is for the money mongrels....I just want a piece of it to let me be comfortable. That's what the difference is......control. I'm not greedy, some are in this business, and I'm sure that's what has happened to many people. I feel bad for all the horrible things I have read on your web page, it will only makes me more cautious. After working with one of the largest medical corporations in the country.... I realize that not all is bad. I have seen and heard some awful things about that company...However, you never heard about the GOOD, CHARITABLE things they did.. I have to hear from both sides before I can make a judgement. Thanks for the information...I'm sorry your experience was bad.

Hello,

Interesting site. However may I pointout a few things.

All companies have skeletons in their closets. Amway is the manufacturer and Marketer of thousands of products which include their own. The fact that the tapes and business tools cost money to buy is another issue.

Every business has a price to pay or overhead. In this case the overhead for an Amway distributorship is the tapes, boks, seminars,etc.

AS with any business you do need some start up money. With the Amway business this startup money is minimal. If you work the business coreectly it will pay for the business support materials. I want to emphasize correctly.

Keep in mind that it is the various organizations that are making the tapes available to people not Amway. To the organization it costs money to make the tapes. Someone has to be paid somewhere. Granted I am sure they are making good money on them, however they do serve a purpose.

Only about 25% of the people that are Amway distributors are seriously building a business. Despite all the negative press either via word of mouth or from pages like yours, people continue to be successful. People continue to win their freedom back for themselves.

Your page did not bust my dream one bit. The products I use are superior than those in the stores and I continue to make money.

It is only people that choose to focus on the negative aspects of the things that will try to break others dreams.

Good Luck in your Quest. However, you are fighting a losing battle.

Who are you? Were you formally an Amway "distributor"? I have recently been approached about joining in as a distributor and am doing some research on the company. How could this business have survived for so many years if its "pyramid" structure is illegal? I have heard that Amway is a "scam" (all from people who don't seem to know anything about how it works), but the way they recruit "salespeople" (distributors) seems to be a very cost effective way to move the product. I must admit I'm a little confused on how such a "crooked" organization could be so profitable and have such a presence, let alone be a threat to a top Fortune 100 company (P&G). I would like to know if you have had a personal experience with Amway, and what motivated you to provide this web page (you seem to be very passionate about keeping people from joining Amway). Please reply if you get a chance, I would really like to know any factual information about this organization that I can find.

Thank you very much.

Can you tell me what we can believe in, today or who we can believe in? Where are the visionaries like Lewis and Clark that explored the vast wilderness looking for a better way? Rick and Jay Devos are no different in their pursuit of the illusive dream. Did they lead others into debt to get to where they are at now? Probably not because we as adults know the values of human decisions. Politicans are good examples of poor business. They loiter the halls of human decency and in the end they look for only themselves. I think that if I was to listen to anyone with some sort of morality it would be the Devos. A politican you can not trust. They would rather give themselves a raise than the working person and they would hide the fact of their actions. They are the ones who take advantage of the public. They dress, dine and travel at our expense.

No one promises you anything in this business just like no one promises anything with a college degree. I take pride in mines but when you reach the top there is no where to go. A person can chose how much investment they want to put up in terms of time and training materials. The tapes and functions are extensions of others who have reached a level of excellence. What better way of sharing yourself with others?

As a mental health professional the whole concept of this business has to do with improvement of self esteem and self worth. Many times we are looking for others to feel like we feel to justify our failures or unwillingness to accept the sucesses of others.

I appreciate your comments, but a cult . . . that can be no different than what you are doing trying to form a crusade against Amway distributors and what they stand for. You see people are listening to you and maybe following your stand but remember they are following you.

Sorry for the many words but my point is that you have encouraged me to follow my dreams of being financially independent unless you have found anything better. For now I continue to be an AMWAY distributor. Good luck inn pursuing your dreams.

Amway wants me. Recently my wife and I we befriended by a very nice couple who said they were in a home business and wondered if we would be interested in starting our own home based business.

Sounded interesting, yet criptic. You know the approach. We agreed to go to one of their presentations. I laughed about half way through the rah rah, B.S., no details presentation, when they revealed that it was Amway. Our sponsor introduced us to many people with similar backgrounds that were now in the business and making money, yea right.

My wife and I saw right through the poorly disguised trap and politely said we would think about it. They gave us much literature and motivational tapes to listen to and wanted to see us again within 48 hrs. Gotta get their hooks in before the excitement wears off and you start to think clearely and critically. Well, as busy as we are, we did listen to the tapes and look through the junk and it was more of the same rah rah crap with no real info.

When we checked the net for info on Amway we were so pleased to see this site and learn what was in store. You are doing a great service. Keep up the good work. Well, next time we talked with our would be sponsors, we asked many pointed questions and they handled them like pro's, just like your site said they would. It didn't take long for them to use the word "faith". They explained, finally, that they didn't understand how the business worked, they just knew that it did and that we had to have faith and if we would sacrifice 3-5 years of our lives, we would be very wealthy. What a joke. We said we would think about it and they said they wanted us to talk to their up line and maybe they could explain it better. The only reason we haven't told them to get lost is that it is very interesting to study the Amway "phenomenon" and watch it in action.

Is there anyone we should notify about these questionable activities/practices?

Mr. Schwartz,

I have been involed in varying degrees in the Britt System for 15 years active and inactive. Most everything I have seen on your site looks to be pretty accurate. One thing I have not seen as of yet is in ref. to hotels. I believe there is a kickback [for a lack of a better word] when distributors reserve rooms for functions that has been set up by the upline. This is a very lucrative item that has been left out if in fact they do get this payment back to them.

Let me know if you have heard anything about this.

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