### Amway: The Untold Story

## Your Comments, Part 20

(12/96 to 1/97)

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Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.

This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.

[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]

`Sydney,`

Great Site, I've gotten a lot of valuable information from you over the past few months. I am not involved in Amway, and have never intended to be, however my best friend (and room mate) has recently (a few months ago) joined. I let him know I wasn't interested right away, and he has been cool about it (so far) I still am very concerned so I like to keep posted.

He is in a group called ILD or International Learning Development. I'm not sure who the founder is, so I can't help you there, it is based out of Portland, OR. (I think)

BTW: My friends sponsor is his chiropractor. Doesn't that seem to be abuse of the doctor/patient relationship?

Thanks again.

OK, everyone else has put in their responses, I will too. Feel free to include my name and E-Mail address in with this posting. I certainly do hope you will post it.

Yes, it's true. I'm an Amway Distributor. I have been for almost five years now, and I am not even a Direct Distributor yet. I can also see where most everyone writing in to this page seem to have valid points. I would like to offer my insight to our business.

I have been to restaurants where the help was rude. I've also eaten where the food was VERY bad. This doesn't mean that I don't eat anymore. Every distributor is an INDEPENDENT distributor. Likewise, not everyone will run their business the same way. Yes, I approach people about joining my "Amway" business. To tell them anything else would be a lie. I distribute Amway products. It is what I do. I don't tell them it is anything different.

There can only be two responses to, "Is this Amway?". Either, "Why yes it is.", or "I'm not going to tell you.". I have developed a very posititive attitude from association, and this has made me a better man. I AM making a profit through using basic business principals. There is no magic. Business is business, and anyone can do what is right or wrong in their business.

I also noticed a lot of people have been "ripped off" by their upline and what they are taught. Do they not have the common smarts to do what most people do at a grocery store? If you need it, or it can help you, by all means buy it and use it, but if it's not for you leave it on the shelf. Here is a quote I read here on your homepage:

"For fuck sakes, there is enough bullshit, deception, lying, and corruption out there. I THINK POSITIVELY, BUT I ALSO HAVE MY OPINIONS. AMWAY CORP. IS NOT TO BLAME HERE, it's the FUCKING MANIPULATIVE BITCHES AND BASTARDS involved. . . ."

This person honestly believes he is a positive person as he wrote so many times in his response to your page. Do you see? Even though he believes he is doing the right thing, and believes he is being positive, his actions (or in this case his choice of words) speak louder. Here is an example of what I'm trying to get across. Religion can be a very positive influence on someone's life. A religious fanatic can be one of the most devistating things you can ever experience. See the difference? This business is just a vehicle. Yes, it can work. I am proof of that. But it can be done the wrong way (which it seems quite a few people are doing) and it can be a very bad thing.

Come on people, use your common-sence.

Responses Welcome,

-Douglas Oxborrow 75640.1101@Compuserve.com

Hi,

My husband and I have been AMWAY distributors for about 18 months now, we love the group we are in, and the people that we associate with. We got our kit in June of last year and the next week end I choose to go to one of the rallies. I had a blast, and it was a difinate moral boost. It was supose to be. So often in life, when we start a new endeaver, it is easy for us to all to soon , leave it (new years resolutions =-> ). Whe we were presented with the plan, we were never once told it was "get rich quick", "easy money", ect.. What we were told was that it would be alot of work, but it would be worth it.

I am in Bill Britts downline, and while I do not believe all that Bill enspouses, our faiths being different, I do find that he is a powerful speaker. But at the same time, I am a strong person, and not easily lead astray. I guess, if you believe that the groups strong arm people into doing it "their" way, you take deminish the abilties of the individual. We all have to make choices in life, and while it is recomended that we listen to tapes ( which I LOVE ) , we also know our own financial limits, and our upline respects us.

In one of Your Comments someone quote that tickets to rallies and/or events were $200-$300 bucks??? that is wrong, I have YET to be to anything that cost more that $55, and that is for a 3 day event. I understand that you as a former distributor, don't feel that something is right, but there are alot of us that do, and alot more that could. Here is a little story for you .

My sister and I would go to our grandpaents farm every summer. At dinner, My Grandma would start to dish out hte food, and often my older sister would say.."Oh Gran, she doesn't like those ------- ( whatever it was )" so I would not be served them.

One summer I went by myself to my Grandparents house. At dinner I served Gran her food and was putting food on my own, and dished up some Lima beans. Gran said " I thought you didn't like those beans?".

And my reply was "I don't know Gran, I never got the chance to taste them before"

I know that you truely feel that you are presenting a service to those who might be "taken" by some slick AMWAY distributor, but I just wanted to pass along to you that most of us are not "slick", but rather regular people, who have decided to take action in their lives.

Hey Amway has grown by leaps and bounds in the last ten years, it is now over 6.4 BILLION a year in sales, and that has NOTHING to do with books, tapes, and rallies....that is products that AMWAY ships out, someone must be buying the soap. I know that I do. The pre-wash is a great product...and with a house full of children, we need stain remover :-)

Are you the guy that sued, Bill & Dexter? I read that , that person and all others listed in the suit, are going to get discount coupons for AMWAY products.

Anyway....good luck with all your endeavers, I wish you and your family happy holidays.

you must not have made any money to be so critical and you must not have found a line of sponsorship that respected peoplesuch as yourself

Do you really think a price comparison of 3 products out of some 12, 000 is a complete picture? If it grew by half a billion last year and a billion the year before, obviously a lot of reasonable people thought it was a great idea.

I'm really sorry you had a bad experience with some distributor. It's a shame you feel so bitter, probably against someone close to you. So why lash out against the business in this public forum? I am a distributor, an independent business owner, and I see this as a tremendous opportunity for anyone who is looking. No deception, no deceit, just simple Free-Enterprise. Not everyone is interested or qualified to see the business; they can sort themselves out and don't need all this negative hype.

Dear Sidney

Unfortunately my wife and I have been Australian Amway distributers for the past two years and six months. Through your pages on the internet we have suddenly realised (realized I think in U.S.A) that our investment into the "business" is a scam. We too have been pressured into purchasing tapes, books, meetings, functions, "FREE" Enterprise Days etc. Our major delemma is that we are unsure whether we should cut off completely from the organisation. Many of our previous "discounted" purchases require AMWAY refills such as the water purifier requires AMWAY brand filter refills etc. We have a car and house full of tapes and books.

Do we risk being brainwashed again by this organisation as we have seen good people return to it after previously cutting ties. We have read many letters from people on your pages who remain with Amway but do not purchase educational materials or attend seminars. Are these people telling the truth when they say they are still on their way to success without these things and by just selling a very limited core line of products. Is it true that they can avoid the extreme pressure exerted by upline to by tapes, books, seminars etc. Can this actually be possible?

We really would appreciate your help with these issues.

Feel free to use this in the feedback section of your AUS web site.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few weeks ago I put a "Bass Player Wanted" ad up on a bulletin board at the local music store for my band.

Someone respond about a week ago but we kept playing phone tag until last night when he called and reached me in person finally.

The first couple of questions were "What do you guys play", then we preceded into "Is this a primary source of income for you" and then we moved quickly into the familiar "Are you interested in hearing about an opportunity for additional income."

I'm sure you can all guess where this lead to.

This guy had absolutely no interest in joining a band, he just copied down phone numbers and used them as sources.

While it's not illegal, I think this is yet another scummy way to do business. I put my phone number up there for a reason, not to get on a phone solicitation list. It's another one of those techniques that isn't illegal, but is well past where I draw the line for reputable ways to do business.

[If something is worth ranting about, it's worth ranting about twice. The amazing thing is that he didn't just send me duplicate emails...there are some differences between the two. Perhaps he was so busy getting his 8 kids to save all that money by using Glister Oral Rinse that he got confused.]

ONE COMPUTER PROGRAMMER'S REASONS FOR JOINING AMWAY.

Sydney,

First, here are some hard facts:

Consider just one product, namely Glister oral rinse. For $5.34 (plus a quarter for shipping) you get a two ounce bottle. Pretty expensive, huh? Until you realize that it dilutes SIXTY TO ONE, thus producing the equivalent of 10 twelve ounce bottles of any one of the major brands. At a typical price of $3.50 per bottle, this amounts to $35.00. So what these other companies have succeeded in doing is CONNING THE BUYING PUBLIC into paying $30.00 for a gallon of water! And if you buy the 3 ounce bottles from 7-11 or AM/PM, you'll be paying $70 a gallon. If you want to get a CASE of 60 ounce bottles from Price Club, you can reduce this to a still ridiculous $10 a gallon. But with Glister, you pay whatever it costs to draw water from your own tap (in my case that's about 5 gallons for a penny). Amway is thus just about the only major producer of basic consumables that offers its customers an HONEST value proposition.

Clinical studies have shown that regular oral rinsing with Cetylpyridinium Chloride (Glister's active anti- microbial ingredient), reduces plaque levels by 30%. So anyone serious about proper dental care should be using at least two ounces per day. At that rate, one bottle of Glister will last one person for two months. Even for a couple with no children, that amounts to $67.00 per year. Since other brands are roughly SEVEN TIMES as expensive, this represents a yearly savings of over $400. In my case, being a single father with eight children, it would cost me nearly $2,000 per year to use conventional products, and thus would be completely prohibitive. SO THANKS TO THE AMWAY CORPORATION, IT IS NOW POSSIBLE FOR ME TO AFFORD PROPER DENTAL CARE FOR ALL MY CHILDREN.

Glister is of course only one of thousands of such treasures, many of which also come in concentrated or super-concentrated form. The founders of Amway expressed there guiding philosophy as follows "We would rather explain price once, than apologize for quality forever." How fortunate this country is to have such a company - one which eschews the Madison Avenue approach, and instead relies on word of mouth rather than the advertising racket, whereby most other companies make their customers pay for spreading what is in many cases false and misleading claims about their products.

So what does an Amway membership cost? About $200 for the first year followed by a yearly renewal fee of $60. Over a ten year period that averages out to be around 20 cents per day, compared to a Price Club membership of 10 cents. As we have seen, the $200 initial entry cost is repaid DOUBLE (or more, depending on your family size) in just the first year by your savings ON MOUTHWASH ALONE. In reality, you will save MANY TIMES that on OTHER concentrated products. And even if you only purchase $200 per month worth of products, you will receive a minimum performance bonus of 3%, which amounts to $72 per year - MORE THAN ENOUGH TO PAY FOR THE RENEWAL CHARGE!

Anyone who employs rational economic calculation cannot but feel impelled to join this fantastic virtual shopping system. And if your conscience is informed by a concern for the environment, you will not have failed to note the implications of highly concentrated products when it comes to RELIEVING SOLID WASTE PRESSURE ON THE LANDFILLS. And consider the REDUCTION in AIR POLLUTION and TRAFFIC CONGESTION as the result of being able to have things brought to your door, rather than driving all over the place, wasting your time being your own pick-up and delivery person.

Sydney, I have had several children take wrong turns in their lives, and then turn themselves around and get their lives back on track. I would like to see YOU turn around. If you are uncomfortable with sponsoring , please be assured that I would not in any way try to pressure you to become involved in that aspect of the business. But as my parents used to say: "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face." If you want to continue patronizing all those mainstream American companies that I am sure you're smart enough to know are RIPPING YOU OFF and RAPING THE ENVIRONMENT, that's your choice. If not, then I am willing to be the kind of an upline that I think you would be comfortable with.

Once it became clear to me that by failing to sign up, I would be doing myself and my family SERIOUS FINANCIAL HARM, the decision to become an Amway distributor became what is referred to in modern parlance as a "no-brainer" i.e. something for which the auspicious indications are so overwhelmingly obvious as to preclude the need for consideration of alternatives. I, too, was initially hesitant about proselytizing. If people are basically fat and happy, I do not relish the task of trying to get them to do such a simple thing as changing their buying habits - which they will resist even when they consciously know how disproportionately great the benefit would be, compared to the miniscule effort of making the change!

I have enough frustration in my life having to deal with that kind of self-destructive behaviour in my teen- aged children. I don't need the disappointment that comes from being constantly reminded that the vast majority of my fellow human beings never progress much beyond that stage.

But then I realized that in a deeper sense I was talking about myself! I was resisting the relatively miniscule effort of recruiting a few like-minded souls, even though I could see the long term beneficial consequences, viz. independence, security, and freedom (would you call this a manifestation of meta-stupidity?) Changing in this respect is somewhat harder than changing buying habits, but even more potentially rewarding.

Without trying to exert undue pressure on you, might I suggest to your mind a thought which could lead to some self-motivated action on your part - action which could significantly enhance your existence.

You have become a symbol to a large number of people who resent, and rightfully so, the tendency among many who are associated with Amway, to let it become an all- consuming passion - a passion which can become destructive of normal healthy relationships. I don't know whether I have been able to get through to you on the essential lack of wisdom in allowing the mis-behavior of others to become an excuse for you depriving yourself of benefits which there is no reason for you to. But if I have, consider the beautiful irony of you personally helping many of those who have commiserated with you, to acquire that same insight, i.e., to realize that they are able to take advantage of the undeniable benefits of Amway membership, without having to subject themselves to any of what they perceive to be the disadvantages.

I suggest that you consider letting me sign you up, at which point I would encourage you to convey those of my arguments which you consider the most cogent, to your non- distributor respondees. You should be able to go Ruby almost instantly (an income of 5K per month). Die-hard anti- Amwayites will of course accuse you of "selling-out". But in reality you will have proven how marvelously diverse and adaptable people can be in a free society.

There must be a lot of people who genuinely need the significant savings that an Amway membership would afford them. Of course there are those who believe STRUCTURE should only be permitted to exist in its TRADITIONAL INCARNATION within the establishment corporate and governmental framework (true conservatives!) and will apply the epithet "pyramid" to the chart of any organization that dares to try and operate in ways NOT DEEMED ACCEPTABLE by the elite defenders of the status quo. Such persons are hopelessly self-excluded. But freer souls might be interested in accepting a modest increment to their economic well-being. Such ones can perhaps be reached out to by a non-all-consuming network, one comprised of people who, because of their amenability to logical persuasion and an independent disposition to act sensibly, are able to form a stable network which will avoid the excesses that arise in trying to accomodate people who lack those traits.

I am looking for people possessing the following four characteristics:

1. RATIONALITY sufficient to be able to comprehend the significant benefits to their personal budget that an Amway membership will afford them.

2. LOVE FOR THE EARTH such that they will be greatly impressed by Amway's unswerving 30 year long dedication to environmental excellence.

3. COMPASSION that will make them want to share these benefits with others.

4. DEPENDABILITY when it comes to making a lifelong committment to withhold their support from companies that have a vested interest in slandering an enterprise such as Amway, whose existence poses a threat to the otherwise unopposed stranglehold they would have over the buying habits of the entire population of the world.

Think about whose side YOU really want to be on in this crucial ideological battle.

Sydney,

First, here are some hard facts:

Consider just one product, namely Glister oral rinse. For $5.34 (plus a quarter for shipping) you get a two ounce bottle. Pretty expensive, huh? Until you realize that it dilutes SIXTY TO ONE, thus producing the equivalent of 10 twelve ounce bottles of any one of the major brands. At a typical price of $3.50 per bottle, this amounts to $35.00. So what these other companies have succeeded in doing is CONNING THE BUYING PUBLIC into paying $30.00 for a gallon of water (plus a little bit of denatured alcohol to give it that nasty taste that many people mistakenly equate with effectiveness!) And if you buy the 3 ounce bottles from 7-11 or AM/PM, you'll be paying $70 a gallon. If you want to get a CASE of 60 ounce bottles from Price Club, you can reduce this to a still ridiculous $10 a gallon. But with Glister, you pay whatever it costs to draw water from your own tap (in my case that's about 5 gallons for a penny). Amway is thus just about the only major producer of basic consumables that offers its customers an HONEST value proposition.

Of course if you want a watered down product, and are able to pay an astronomical price for H2O, AND you don't mind seeing twelve large plastic bottles being deposited at your city dumpsite, instead of one tiny glass one, then Amway is definitely NOT for you!

Clinical studies have shown that regular oral rinsing with Cetylpyridinium Chloride (Glister's active anti- microbial ingredient), reduces plaque levels by 30%. So anyone serious about proper dental care should be using at least two ounces per day. At that rate, one bottle of Glister will last one person for two months. Even for a couple with no children, that amounts to $67.00 per year. Since other brands are roughly SEVEN TIMES as expensive, this represents a yearly savings of over $400. In my case, being a single father with eight children, it would cost me nearly $2,000 per year to use conventional products, and thus would be completely prohibitive. SO THANKS TO THE AMWAY CORPORATION, IT IS NOW POSSIBLE FOR ME TO AFFORD PROPER DENTAL CARE FOR ALL MY CHILDREN.

Glister is of course only one of thousands of such treasures, many of which also come in concentrated or super-concentrated form. The founders of Amway expressed there guiding philosophy as follows "We would rather explain price once, than apologize for quality forever." How fortunate this country is to have such a company - one which eschews the Madison Avenue approach, and instead relies on word of mouth rather than the advertising racket, whereby most other companies make their customers pay for spreading what is in many cases false and misleading claims about their products.

So what does an Amway membership cost? About $200 for the first year followed by a yearly renewal fee of $60. Over a ten year period that averages out to be around 20 cents per day, compared to a Price Club membership of 10 cents. As we have seen, the $200 initial entry cost is repaid DOUBLE (or more, depending on your family size) in just the first year by your savings ON MOUTHWASH ALONE. In reality, you will save MANY TIMES that on OTHER concentrated products. And even if you only purchase $200 per month worth of products, you will receive a minimum performance bonus of 3%, which amounts to $72 per year - MORE THAN ENOUGH TO PAY FOR THE RENEWAL CHARGE!

Anyone who employs rational economic calculation cannot but feel impelled to join this fantastic virtual shopping system. And if your conscience is informed by a concern for the environment, you will not have failed to note the implications of highly concentrated products when it comes to RELIEVING SOLID WASTE PRESSURE ON THE LANDFILLS. And consider the REDUCTION in AIR POLLUTION and TRAFFIC CONGESTION as the result of being able to have things brought to your door, rather than driving all over the place, wasting your time being your own pick-up and delivery person.

Once it became clear to me that by failing to sign up, I would be doing myself and my family SERIOUS FINANCIAL HARM, the decision to become an Amway distributor became what is referred to in modern parlance as a "no-brainer" i.e. something for which the auspicious indications are so overwhelmingly obvious as to preclude the need for a consideration of alternatives. In fact, in order to understand and accept the significant time and money savings, and the nowhere-else-to-be-found residual income prospects offered by an Amway membership, all that is required is a non-negative I.Q. Somehow I have managed to wind up at age 54 as a single dad with custody of eight children ages 5 throug 24, and guardianship of two others. Having suffered an incredible four year long string of financial catastophes, I find myself very much concerned about avoiding such things as preventable dental expenses.

It is no exaggeration to say that Amway's concentrated products save our family close to $5,000 every year. The only thing more concentrated than Glister has got to be bomb-grade Plutonium. The stuff is worth four times its weight in silver to me, as every ounce saves me around $15.

Is my Amway membership worth its weight in gold to us? You bet! I'd have to have a financial death wish to refuse a generous handful of Krugerrands worth of savings yearly, in exchange for a membership fee that amounts to the cost of about three swallows of Coke per day!

There must be a lot of people who genuinely need the significant savings that an Amway membership would afford them. Of course there are those who believe STRUCTURE should only be permitted to exist in its TRADITIONAL INCARNATION within the establishment corporate and governmental framework (true conservatives!) and will apply the epithet "pyramid" to the chart of any organization that dares to try and operate in ways NOT DEEMED ACCEPTABLE by the elite defenders of the status quo. Such persons are hopelessly self-excluded. But freer souls might be interested in accepting a modest increment to their economic well-being. Such ones can perhaps be reached out to by a network comprised of people with an amenability to logical persuasion and an independent disposition to act sensibly.

I am looking for people possessing the following four characteristics:

1. (required) RATIONALITY sufficient to be able to comprehend the significant benefits to their personal budget that an Amway membership will afford them.

2. (optional) LOVE FOR THE EARTH such that they will be greatly impressed by Amway's unswerving 30 year long dedication to environmental excellence.

3. (optional) COMPASSION that will make them want to share these benefits with others.

4. (required) DEPENDABILITY when it comes to making a lifelong committment to withhold their support from companies that have a vested interest in slandering an enterprise such as Amway, whose existence poses a threat to the otherwise unopposed stranglehold they would have over the buying habits of the entire population of the world.

If you want to continue patronizing all those mainstream American companies that I am sure you're smart enough to know are RIPPING YOU OFF and RAPING THE ENVIRONMENT, that's your choice. If not, then I am willing to be the kind of an upline that I think you would be comfortable with.

Think about whose side YOU really want to be on in this crucial ideological battle: on the one hand, the worldwide army of corporate Philistines, led by manufacturing Goliaths like Pester and Grumble, Warning- Lamebrat, Cruelgreat, et. al., whose products we see arrayed on every supermarket shelf; or on the other hand, that upstart David of a company, Amway, which is now going forth in unassuming yet inexorable power, armed with the slingshot of direct distribution and a handful of highly concentrated yet biodegradable missles, to put an end once and for all to the PLUNDERING of the earth, and the PILLAGING of its inhabitants' pocketbooks!

The nice thing about Amway is that they have devised a distribution system in which their consumers can obtain a significant rebate on the purchases made by themselves AND EVERY PERSON THEY BRING IN, AND EVERY PERSON THEY BRING IN, and so on down the line - one which has superficial resemblances to a pyramid scheme, but which avoids both the legal objections as well as the intrinsic instabilities which cause such schemes to collapse within a few weeks or months.

Some religious people object to this kind of an arrangement because they feel that it goes contrary to the sentence God gave Adam, that he should have to earn bread by the sweat of his brow ALL THE DAYS OF HIS LIFE. With an Amway distributorship, you put in a really toilsome (!) eight or ten hours a week for three or four years building your downline, after which your residual income keeps on coming in at an ever growing rate for the rest of your life. This gives you the freedom to do what you want with your life, as well as relieving you of the uncertainties that go along with trying to eke a living out of uncooperative soil.

Actually, I should not paint an overly rosy picture. There is a lot of work, and a lot of discouragement due to the fact that you have to go through at least a thousand people, most of whom will be not interested, until you have found the few who, like yourself, are able to immediately see the value and potential in doing it. Then they find their few and you have few-squared, then few-cubed, etc. So while it is not a get-rich- overnight scheme, it will get you rich a hell of a lot faster than working some nine to five job for forty years (just try out the math with few = 4, 5, or 6 and remember that each of these core few will be surrounded by a small retinue of up to several hundred not so core people whose purchases neverthelss contribute to your growing wealth)

I imagine that you are a young student to whom the savings from using concentrated products might not seem as attractive as it does to someone like myself with a large number of children.

I was a student once myself (graduated at age 19 in Math from Stanford). I had a lot of naive ideas, and what turned out to be a very ill-placed faith in the SYSTEM. After working for Hughes Aircraft for twenty years I was laid off when our plant was closed in the wake of the California defense industry cutbacks. I lost my retirement, then lost an inheritance as the result of the suicide of a younger brother, then lost a wife through divorce, etc. I certainly wish someone had turned me on to this business a long time ago.

If you're at all inclined to listen to the advice of someone with experience, I would say get in now and you'll have less regrets about having put it off. So if you can get past whatever may be your reservations about it, you will have a considerably more carefree life as the result of having gotten an early start.

If you want to say no at this time, all I can do is thank you, because every "no" I get is worth around $2,500 (that's my ultimate projected diamond income, divided by the thousand NO's that I can expect to get along the way).

If you want to say yes, then I'll be happy to supply you with the necessary application form to get you started.

Sidney,

I've read quite a bit of the stuff you've posted to the internet concerning the Amway corporation, particularly the fraudulent and harmful practices of the Dexter Yager and Bill Britt organizations. Pretty good stuff!

I was in Amway three times. The first time was in the early 1970's in Austin, Texas. That was back when you had to retail to 10 separate customers and turn in receipts before you qualified for compensation. It wasn't just a sign-up, kit selling game. Nor did it center around books, tapes and rallies. I thought that was a pretty good deal, because there was a legitamate product sold to real people.

My wife and I worked our Amway business pretty steady. We never made a lot of money, but we sponsored a few people and built up some volume. We emphasized retail sales of the products, and some of our people even had commercial accounts with local businesses supplying the industrial cleaner and other products. We had an account with a daycare center. We sold them the household stuff. Our group was growing steadily, and we were active with the training meetings, etc.

Then one night we were invited to a meeting at the home of the local double-diamond, whose name I can't recall right now. After we'd been there a while, our upline ruby, C, called us aside to another room where we met with the diamond. C introduced us and told him what a promising young couple we were. Energetic and capable. Then C turned to us and said, "Jimmie, what you and Wilma need to do is stop going to church for one year, and dedicate yourself fully to your Amway business. Then at the end of a year, you'll be able to buy your church anything they need."

We were devistated. We were totally involved in our church. Still are. I taught Sunday School, drove a bus, edited the church paper, played music. My wife worked in the nursery and kitchen. We attended prayer meetings , Bible studies, and church outings. All of the things an active church member does.

When C told us we could buy our church anything they wanted, I asked him what made him think we went to church for material things. I told him we went to church because we loved God. We walked out of that house that very night and never went back. We resigned our business and dropped out of Amway.

Then some years later, around 1980, we were stationed in Japan in the U.S. Air Force. Amway came to Japan and a friend of ours got involved. We looked at it, and he assured us it wasn't like it had been back in Texas. It was a "new system", lead by ethical people who cared for the individual more than averice.

So we joined again. There really wasn't much we could do on the U.S. military base, but we were due to return to the U.S. in February 1981, so we knew we'd be able to pursue a business once we were back on American soil. We received our orders and were stationed at England AFB, in central Louisiana.

Once we were settled in Louisiana, we made contact with our upline direct distributor, who happened to live in Florida. He said he'd drive over so we could get together. He said he wanted to bring me some stuff to help build our business. When he arrived, he unloaded boxes of cassette tapes and books. Then he presented me with a bill of over $400 for these items. I told him there was no way I was going to pay that kind of money for these, but he assured me these were necessary tools if we wanted to succeed. I told him that if he wanted to leave the tools he could, and I'd send him the money if anybody bought them.

R spent that weekend with us, all the time extolling the virtues of Dexter Yager and Bill Britt, two financial genius' that had revolutionized Amway. In his eyes they were diety, and by the time he left, they were pretty close to it to us.

We agreed to work within the system and build the business their way. So we went to work. I'm a pretty good recruiter, so we sponsored some good quality folks. Our group grew and we had some sizable checks coming in. The only problem was, by the time we paid our downline, then deducted for tapes, books and rallies. we were in the hole every month, not to mention the mountains of paperwork. We were required to drive to Florida at least once a month because that was where the "power" was, and if we wanted to share in the power, we had to attend these rallies. They were only jump and jitter, but by this time we were totally brainwashed. What's worse, so were our friends.

After we'd been in about 18 months, R called and said we had to go to Washington D.C. for a family reunion. Bill Britt was going to be there, along with all of our diamond upline. Maybe even Dexter himself. I told R there was no way I could afford to go.

That next Saturday, R showed up in my driveway. He said he wouldn't take no for an answer, that I had to go to Washington, no matter what it cost. I had just paid over a thousand dollars repairing my second car, a 1974 Ford Gran Torino which I had bought new off of the lot. R convinced me, in my brainwashed state, to drive that car to a local used car lot and sell it, and use the money to go to Washington. He assured me that if I'd make this sacrifice, it would return to me many fold within the next few months. He said I'd learn things at the family reunion that I couldn't learn anywhere else, and it was critical that I go.

So, I sold the car for a measly $700, less than the recent repair bills, and when the time came, I flew one-way to Washington D.C. The reason I flew one-way was because R and a group from Florida were planning to drive one of his downline's van back to Louisiana after the reunion, and they invited me to ride along.

When we got to Washington, we stayed in the Hilton with all of the pomp and splendor. Cost a fortune, but it's gonna be worth it! For three days they kept us up until the wee hours of the morning. "Sleep fast!" they'd say. We whistled and clapped and stood on our chairs when the diamonds paraded across the stage. We slapped each other on the backs and sprayed breath spray like it was mints. I stood in line for almost two hours to meet Bill Britt for less than 30 seconds. What a treat!

Then when it was all over, and my bag was filled with books and tapes, it was time to go home. We loaded up in the van. Of the $700, I had about $50 left in my pocket. Packed in the van with several other people, including my direct distributor, R, I turned to him and asked if I could ask a question. He said sure. So I asked if it seemed odd to anyone else that we'd just spent hundreds of dollars and three days and nights at a function where we learned absolutely nothing about building an Amway business. Nothing about products or sales. Only hype and upline worship.

R looked me square in the eyes and called me a loser, and said that I didn't deserve to breath the same air as the winners in the van. He had the driver pull over, and with bag in hand, they left me stranded on a downtown Washington D.C. sidewalk, broke and alone.

Since I was still in the military and had a military ID card, I caught a city bus out to Andrews Air Force Base, where I hoped to catch a free military flight to Lousiana. There were no flights going out that day, so I spent the night in the terminal. I slept on a bench with my jacket as a pillow. It was a far cry from the Hilton.

Then the next day I was lucky enough to catch a hop with a general who was flying to Louisiana in his private jet. But halfway there he received an emergency call and was diverted to Shaw AFB, S. Carolina. Again, I was stranded. My money was almost gone and I was discouraged. I hitched a ride to the Greyhound bus station, but I only had enough money to get as far as Jackson, Mississippi. The next day I arrived in Jackson, discouraged, dirty and alone, my money spent. I called my wife collect and asked her to pack up the kids and drive to Jackson to pick me up.

Sidney, I want you to know that R never did apologize to me for that insult. He told me that it was just the price of running with winners. I let him know that the price was too high, and that he could keep the Amway business and everything that goes along with it.

I do want you to know that while I was actively working the Amway business, I was the happiest bird in the nest. I knew I was going to make a fortune, and that I'd be able to give my family all of the things I'd never had when I was growing up. I was not prepared for the lying and deception, nor was I prepared for the underhanded business practices. What I didn't learn until much later was that R had cut my sponsor completely out of the loop. He'd gone completely around him. And since my sponsor was still overseas and I was dealing directly with R, he'd never sent the first volume check to my sponsor, even though he should have.

Well, that's about it. From years of experience with Amway, and learning my lessons the hard way, I'm a firm voice when I hear someone say they're thinking of joining. I have another recent wonderful true story of "the system" deception involving my current supervisor at work. If you'd like to hear it, just let me know.

I enjoyed the stuff you posted. I am anxious to learn the outcome of the lawsuit againstYager/Britt/Amway.

Sidney,

Thanks for your reply regarding my personal Amway story. Yes, it was a lot different back in the 70s before Yager and his bunch messed it up for everyone. Amway was, and still is, a great company. I believe that DeVos and VanAndel had the right idea, they just let themselves be led astray by averice. Back then we used to service retail customers, just as it still says to do in current Amway literature, but that no one follows or enforces.

I said I would tell you a more recent story concerning my current boss at work. I retired from the U.S. Air Force in 1991 and went to work at a major national retail store. It's very high profile, and you'd know it immediately if I named it. We'll, a few months ago my boss was invited to attend an opportunity meeting at a local hotel. Sound familiar? Her previous boss, and close personal friend, who had just retired from the company, had called and invited her to the meeting. She asked him what it was, because it sounded suspiciously like Amway. He assured her that it wasn't Amway, but said that he couldn't tell her what it was.

When J, my boss, told me about the invitation, I told her that it was Amway. She assured me that it wasn't, because her friend would never lie to her. I asked her to call her friend and ask him point blank what the name of the company was, and to get his assurance that it wasn't Amway. Again she called him. This time he told her that the name of the company was Britt International. Again she asked him if it was Amway, because she'd never heard of Britt International. And again he assured her that it wasn't Amway.

Well, when she told me that it was Britt International, I asked her if she knew who Bill Britt was. She didn't. So I explained who he is, and how they teach people to deceive other people into seeing an Amway presentation. She told me that I was surely mistaken, and assured me again that he friend would never lie to her. She had decided to take another friend with her and attend the meeting.

I attempted to explain to J how the meeting would go. I explained that the room would be set up very professsionally. I explained that someone, probably a man in a nice, dark suit with a silk tie with just a sprinkle of red in it would be the main presenter of the opportunity information. I also explained that the speaker would dazzle them with glowing reports of multi-million dollar deals, thousands of products they represented, and corporate holdings in every part of the world. I told J that the promoter would pander the ease of earning hundreds of thousands of dollars a year if only they'd be willing to follow their infallible system. Then I told J that at the very end, after all the circles had been drawn and the dream had been build, the promoter would finally draw a circle on the marker board and reveal their mother company to be Amway.

Needless to say, J didn't believe me. She went to the meeting, sure that she was going to be presented with an opportunity that would be able to free her of the deadend job she now has.

The next morning J came to work. I asked her how the meeting went. She wouldn't talk to me. She was mad all day. But what's worse, she was beyond mad. She was hurt. Finally she told me that everything I'd told her was true. It had happened exactly as I'd said. She said that when the promoter revealed the name of the company, her heart broke with hurt and dissapointment that her very close friend would lie so blatantly to her.

Sidney, J has never been the same since. She's stuck in a deadend job with no prospects of promotion. Her dream of escaping the rat-race was dashed that night at the Holiday Inn. What's worse is the fact that she now doesn't believe in faith the things that her friends and coworkers tell her. She documents everything now so she can protect herself from being duped again.

I tell you this story because I want people to know that the system perpetuated by the Dexter Yager organization is one of greed and deception. They justify their lies by telling people that it's for the good of the prospective new distributor. In truth, it's the only way they can get people to listen to their rhetoric since so many millions of people have been hurt by their terrible system.

Well, that's about it. Again, I appreciate your reply. Sincerely,

I'm an inactive Amway distributor. I agree with most of the negative comments. But I will also say that the business can work. I've been to functions and meetings for a year straight. Yes, I bought tapes. What should I do with them? Actually, a tape by Dave Severn:"Going Home From Work" helped me to get out of the fasttrack. Severn said,"If you want this business to grow, you've got to grow spiritually."

It was at this point where my upline wanted me to attend a Leadership function in Oregon or I was going to attend a Promisekeepers Rally in Minneapolis. I live in Green Bay. Go Pack. Anyway, I went to Promisekeepers and I've been growing spiritually ever since. Praise The Lord!

Now I'm not focused on the money or sucess. I have more important things such as my wife and 3 kids.

If the Lord wants me to do Amway, then He will have to send the prospects to me. God bless you. Share this with anyone.

Sidney:

The responses to your web-site on Amway from current distributors in Amway show their true colors. Angry, hateful, attacking (rather than checking out the facts you present) and above all, cult like. Very exlusive people. Unfortunately, I've seen friends and aquaintances get involved in Amway. Since I did not desire to become involved with Amway, because of my preference, all of a sudden, I'm treated as the "bad guy." I saw these symptoms in these individuals 2 years ago. I just discovered your website. You provide true and accurate information. I really believe that the god and lord of Amway is $$$$$$$$$. Jesus Christ even said one cannot serve God and mammon (money). Don't be discouraged, you're telling the truth.

Sidney,

You have put a great deal of effort into your Amway site. I browsed and read a bit here and there, and I must say there is certainly alot of misconception from both sides to what Amway realy is.

Amway is a company which manufactures, and distributes many thousands of every day items. That's it ! How it is done is what is messing people up. I have a small, "yet growing" distributorship. As long as I keep to the code of ethics and keep the process open an simple, I feel good about what I'm doing and so do my downline. No high pressure, just stick to the basics.

Go and ask some strangers on the street what they know about Amway, and you probably will get the same number of different answers as if you asked them what they know about hot dogs, beer or any religious group.

Depending on a persons experience with a topic or another individual in that area, they will hav a pre- conceived notion for the basis of their opinion, (sometimes good, sometimes not so good).

If anyone keeps the fact that this is a business, clearly in the front of their mind, and looks at it as an opportunity of choices, then they will be "Successful" from day 1.

Please let everyone know that Success is measured not in any one way, but it is a journey we all take through life. We will touch people with our words, our hands, our actions and sometimes we can reach alot more people if we have the extra cash that a side-line business can afford.

I'd thrill in sponsoring hundreds of thousands of people that share my own thoughts and feelings about work, life and success, but I will not force my ideals on another.

Hi Sidney,

I would imagine that Amway products would be hard to make a fortune on, because they are expensive. However, I have not found anything comparable to the LOC cleaner and the BioQuest dry detergent, so I am ordering some more, despite the company's terrible treatment of their employees. As a customer, I have always been treated well.

LOC was the most effective cleanser when our cat, who had kidney stones, started peeing all over the (rented) house. I recommend it to everyone with the same problem, including the vet. It entirely removed the smell from tile grout and hardwood floors. It probably saved Taz's life, since a cat in such a condition is not a desirable pet.

I consistently use less detergent than is suggested, and "my whites sparkle" and my sister was impressed with the job it did on her baby clothes. We are a small household, without the challenge of children's laundry, but our workout clothes, paint clothes, and garden clothes look good.

I think my favorite quality is the smell. or lack of it, and neither product affects my very sensitive skin.

I consider health food store "green" products to be comparable products to both of these, and in that price comparison, Amway comes out ahead! I would use something cheaper if I could find anything, but I haven't.

As for the dilution factor (a good point) many laundry detergents state how many average loads the package is expected to do, with an effectiveness that the company expects please a householder. Anyone who's done two weeks worth of laudry knows whether they are using an effective amount of detergent. I didn't buy a second box of anything that didn't clean well at its intended "dose". Why bother, when there are lots of detergents out there, and most of them are cheap?

My current dealer gave me a catalog full of all kinds of overpriced stuff, including some scary food!

I'm sorry Amway didn't stick with marketing some good products to the right audience.

I am a current prospect(well I guess ex as of now.) I just wanted to thank you for all the work you have done to get the TRUTH OUT!

Dear Sid,

I have visited your site a few times now, and I know my experiance with Amway won't have much affect on how you think or any one else for that matter, but I feel that I must let people know. My wife and I joined the business about 2 1/2 years ago. We were very exited and worked very hard. We sponsored 7 people in the first 2 months after that our exitement wore off and a few months later we became "in active". We still renewed every year and still ordered the products. I didn't realize what a huge mistake I made in quiting. Two of the people that I sponsered have since become direct distributers with the help of my upline. One of wich is my mother the other is one of my best friends and they credit me with there succsess, heck, I don't really know completely how the business works. I have been recieving money now for about 8 months.

I can't believe I let the negativity of other people slow me down. I also can't believe I almost missed the boat. But, hopefully with the help of my down-line and up-line I can pick up were I left off. I have read so many messages sent to you about people who have just joined or are about to and are thanking you. If I could say anything to those people I wold say give It a try for your self, oviously for longer than 3 months.

If you check into the legal actions background of nearly every corporation on earth you will find that they are being sued for something. Your information makes it seem as if Amway is the only corporation being sued. Isn't this misleading?

-- Sidney

My wife and I were conned into a "Network 21" by my brother-in-law who after showing the plan 60 times only ever sponsored us and another person. He has sonced droppped out. I want them to throw me out.

We have never heard of the benefits accruing to senior distributors but after I heard an Emerald (a dentist) speaking at a function that he had been in Hawaii last week and was going to be in New Zealand next week as a result of Amway I figured it had to actually be courtesy of N21 i.e. from the fees paid by mugs like us - as a result of seeing N21's function schedule refer to it being a "non-profit" organisation.

It is headed by Jim and Nancy Dornan who live in a $24 million dollar place overlooking San Diego.

I'VE BEEN READING YOUR ARTICLES ON AMWAY WITH INTENSE INTEREST. MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN INVOLVED FOR ALMOST 2 YEARS WITH AMWAY. DURING THIS TIME HE HAS LOST HIS JOB, ALIENATED HIMSELF FROM HIS FAMILY AND FRIENDS AND HAS BECOME A DIFFERENT PERSON THAN THE ONE I MARRIED 6 YEARS AGO.

WE ARE BOTH 37 YEARS OLD WITH FAIRLY GOOD INCOMES. I'M A COLLEGE GRADUATE (MY HUSBAND DIDN'T GRADUATE) WE ALSO HAVE A 2 YEAR OLD SON,WE'D LIKE TO HAVE ANOTHER, BUT HE'S NEVER HOME.

II'VE BEEN TRYING FOR MONTH'S TO GET HIM TO REALIZE WHAT HE'S DOING TO OUR LIVES AND OUR SON'S. I NEED HELP. IS THERE ANYONE I CAN TALK TO,TO GET MY HUSBAND BACK? I'M REALLY GETTING DESPERATE. MY BROTHER TOLD ME TO GIVE HIM AN ULTIMATUM. IF I DO HE'D PROBALLY CHOOSE AMWAY. THANK YOU FOR READING THIS.

If you think that the Amway corporation is so extrememly bad and wrong why even bother printing it out on the net, where people in the 75+ countries around the world that the Amway opportunity has helped create a better life for themselves can see this. You should really spend more time around the people like me that are making this work, the right way. Not by cheating or swindling people like you hint at. Try listening to an entire rally not just small excerpts like you have available to veiwers of your page. Give all the info not just the negative garbage...

Get a life !!

Thank you for your website on Amway. Recently very close friends have become involved in the Amway business. They did not pressure us to join, but took us to see one of their successful uplines. Although not hounded to sign up, there were offers to go to our local meetings and regional events, which all sound great. But I am fairly careful and decided to investigate the only way I have time for, throught the internet. After looking at the first 80+ hits on Amway, which were the official Amway pages, I found your's and it told me what I was half expecting to find. I do not know what will happen to our friends. I beleive they are sucked in too far and have pinned all their hopes and dreams on the success of their Amway business. Fortunately for me, I do not need the extra $100 per month for 30 hours work. I value my time with my wife more than any financial gain.

Thank you again for your time in this endeavor.

Read your message and felt compeled to send you a note,

Late last year I was approached by an individual and his wife in a Walmart store while waiting in line. Small talk insued and the next thing I new we were talking about income and whether I would be interested in "supplementing" mine. Now I am a pretty world wise person but this gentleman? seemed trustworthy and extremely honest. He gave me a business card that read: "JAG Vision" "Personal developement through financial leadership". He stated that he has a business and if I was interested in making money without giving up my current career to call him.

Well I did not, I round filed the card. 5 days later I was approached while working in the yard by the same person (alone this time). He stated that he did not want to take any of my time as he felt time off work and with the family are vital to a heathy family life (he stated "God, Country, Family, Business) and told me that this was his business' motto. He left, but not before sticking me with a tape. A tape with just enough info to make you wonder, what is it?

I listened and had to hear more. But I sure did not need to contact him. 4 or 5 days later he was on the phone! "Did you get a chance to listen to the tape?" he said. I said yes and he asked what I thought. I told him that it did not contain enough information to state whether I liked it or not. Basically he was now reeling me in.

Long story short.....

It was none other than Amway, INA and I have just been able to shrug him from my shoulders without being totally rude (not after watching countless videos and presentations and 50 or so cassette tapes) I also must admit that he had me going with the "residual income lines" and he had a damn answer for every one of my worries or questions. When he thought he was losing me he sicked his Direct Distrubutor on me with some sort of "I have faith in you" speech.

The business? stuff is sitting in my entry way with about 1" of dust on it waiting to be returned to him.

These people are very persistant and after awhile annoying. With "Amway is much more than it used to be" and how "Amway is the #1 retail money maker at 67 billion with Sears a distant second"

When I finally saw the light I realized that if this were to ever work one would have spend 200% of there time trying to motivate their "downline" so that they would not stagnate and to keep the pyramid $ coming. So it never ends.

To sum it all up it's just a "parasite / host" system. (funny how nature teaches us things huh?

Sidney You have put up a very interesting web page. I have been a distributor fo amway for 2 days now. Not once did anyone force me top come to a meeting, or listen to tapes. secondly I am excited and although friends of mine don't like Amway and know unsussesful people in Amway it has not affected our friendship. I wish you would tell us your expierience with amway. My upline has never said this would be easy but if you work hard you can make real money, but work hard like any buisness. I'm sure that if a company like GMC puts in 2 million dollars into investigating Amway, that by browsing the web I would find something they did not. Anyways after 2 days of being involed I making $150 dollars a month. I don't know you personnally, and won't send hate mail. But I am rather curious to know why you hate Amway so much? I work and make $12 dollars an hour, but because I wan't more out of life doesn't make me evil.

Sidney,

I have a considerable amount of information to share regarding my experiences with the Amway Corporation and the Yager "System". I would like to start off by saying that I believe the Amway Corporation could probably do a better job at controlling the tools scam, i.e., only allow Amway Corporation tapes to be sold. However, in our dealings with Amway, they have always stood behind their products. It is for this reason that I am still a distributor, but only to buy the products and service those few people left in our organization. As companies go, they seem to be ethical.

I and my wife built our group to the 4000 PV level. I and my wife are educated (I have a BSEE and a MS in Management and my wife has a BS in Marketing). I work as a Sales Engineer in the semiconductor industry while she works part time in the fitness industry. We hovered around 2500-4000 PV for around a year or so, but were never able to hit the magic 7500.

I would also like to say that while I am somewhat disheartened with how the "system" ultimately consumes you, I accept personal responsibility for my success or lack thereof in this business. I am just sharing my experiences from what I consider to be an objective viewpoint.

I laugh at the comments you receive from all of the "motivated" distributors out there that slam you for this webpage. You really are providing a fairly objective source of information. In my opinion, there are many problems with what is taught in the Yager system, but one of the biggest has to do with this idea of "helping" people. The issue of business and charity is really twisted. After a while, I figured out that just about everything you do for people ultimately has an ulterior motive. You are doing "whatever it takes" to grow your business because unless you are retailing products (like you are suggested to), you will be burning through some money.

A true charity gives and expects nothing in return. When we decided that the business (as we saw it) was not the way we wanted to conduct our lives and pulled out of the system, we saw how much our upline really cared about us. In fact, I was very close to the Diamond in our organization and he is the one who slammed me the hardest.

In My Opinion (IMO), Diamonds want you to basically feel totally indebted to them because they are rich (at least they appear rich) and that they care enough about you to help you have what they have (True Success?). In reality, all they really care about is building their business and getting more lifestyle, etc. What a deal! They get to be your "hero" and basically worshipped while they make money off of you! This Diamond told me one time that it is like being a movie star without the hassle of being recognized in public.

When we pulled out of the system, I received an Amvox from my "hero" telling me that I didn't have a big enough dream. He also told me that I would never make $250k/year. And if I did, I would not be "helping" people and "touching lives" like I could have done in this business. I will have sold out to a great paying job. It's the party line: If you don't do this business you will never be successful.

This philosophy has to be beat into your head by the "system" because in a normal business, if you keep seeing a negative cash flow month after month you have to do something about it because you may lose your house. The insidious thing about this business is that compared to a "normal" business, the cost is "relatively" low. As you can see by the many responses, the costs do add up to a significant number after a while.

There is nothing wrong with having hope. In fact, we all need to have hope to realize our potential. However, in this particular, environment, based on what I experienced, a lot of false hope is perpetuated. Your upline will continue to tell you that you're close (in our case, it was Direct), without really focusing in on what really has to happen. Going through a lot of people is the key, but you really don't know how many. It was definitely not 3 or 4 out of 10 they tell people at the open meetings.

If 70% of Amway's volume is overseas (that ought to tell you something right there about growth in the U.S.), that's around $2B retail in the U.S. Take off an average of 30% for distributor cost (commonly called wholesale), and that amounts to about $1.4B in the U.S. What is the U.S. economy? Trillons. So, in the grand scheme of things, it's more like a blip on the screen. The numbers prove there are a lot more millionaires in the mainstream business world than in Amway.

Anyway, I was shocked by his comments. We went to every function, bought a lot of tapes, read the books, etc. for over 3 and 1/2 years. I was committed to building the business, but when I saw the unbalance that was taking place in my life, it shook me up. It's like being vexed. I really do feel sorry for the people that are told every week "Just one more tape and you'll get it!" "Just one more function..." See, you don't have to buy products to get "help" from your upline. However, if you pull out of the "system" they will cut you off in a heartbeat.

Rather than getting free of something, I believe it is cleverly designed to get people more co-dependent than they were before they got in the business. It's really quite good what Dexter has created. Convince people that this is the only way, program them to dislike or even hate their jobs, try to make them immune to any negative comment about the business, and try to control their minds with what you want them to hear. All on the promises of "fabulous wealth".

Let me talk about tools. I have around $1500 worth of NEW tools that my upline said they would buy back when we got out of the system. Yea, right! After that, several months later they came back and said "Well, we'll try to see if anybody in our group will buy them." We talked to our sponsor recently (who was a Direct, but I think they are now not even Silver producers) and she told us that nobody wanted old new tools. I cannot tell you how many used tapes we bought from them at the full price!

I will get the tapes back and either sell them or burn them, but I will not give them to these people (which is probably what they really want us to do). IMO, if our Diamond is such a strong Christian and super spiritual (like they constantly claim to be in the Yager organization), then he should buy back new tapes. Maybe not at the full price, but at a reasonable price. How many "normal" businesses like Walmart would stay in business if they wouldn't take back unopened products? Not very long. Their ethics seem to waver based on what they have to gain or lose in each situation. Can you respect people like this?

Let's talk about bonuses for a minute. Our bonuses from our sponsor (we are talking about a Direct here) were constantly 3-4 months late! In the five years we have been in the business, we have NEVER had a bonus on time! If I understand this correctly, Amway pays bonuses about a 3-4 weeks after the previous month. I'm talking at least another 3-4 months on top of that! We had constant complaints from people in our group about this.

When we would ask them about this lack of professionalism, the primary response was "We just don't have time to pay them quickly because we are out helping people and building the business!" Here's the business/charity thing getting in the way again. However, we were always expected to get our bonuses out with 24 hours (like Amway suggests). Talk about a serious double standard.

Another thing that seriously bothered me was whenever someone didn't get in, or do something we really wanted them to do, our sponsor always blamed us. They were NEVER wrong! After a while you start getting a complex about even wanting to talk to people. Looking back on it, they blew out more people than we ever thought about! In fact, they've even told us they have blown out 3-4 4000 PV groups! This is probably correct because we were one of them. I'm actually amazed they would even verbalize it. However, I learned in this business that people will actually tell you they were wrong (only if it doesn't directly relate to their people skills), etc. but not really believe it. It's just another technique to suck you in.

Concerning techniques, our sponsor used every thing they could think of. Guilt, condemnation, fear, you name it, it was used. Our sponsor even tried to pit me against my wife and vice versa. It really is incredible, and from what I've read from the comments you've received, a lot of this manipulation goes on. I'm still amazed I got into this thing. I thought it was about helping people and making money, which is just not the case. It's about making money. Period.

Everyone is vulnerable, especially if you feel like you've worked hard in school, etc. but still aren't where you need to be. See, there is just enough truth in a lot of the lines they use on you to get you thinking and doubting. School in and of itself is not the answer, but if you have limited or no education, then where are you going to be? Technology is becoming more and more of a driving factor in business.

There is no such thing as easy money (maybe for the short term), and the promises that are made (or alluded to), are phenomenal! Our society is wired on money! I'm not saying that it isn't important, but you cannot base who you are on money. I would bet there are a lot of people sitting at those functions getting really depressed because the "system" is costing them and they are getting no return on their investment. Plus, they are getting "slapped in the face" watching the diamonds parade around. I saw a diamond at a function one time pull out her "spare" gold Rolex and talk (it was actually more of a giggle) about how girls need a spare because you never know when you'll misplace one or it'll stop running, etc.

We were at a "Free Enterprise Day" at the Georgia Dome when Rich DeVos spoke. It was interesting to see the difference in appearance between Rich and Yager's Diamonds. They looked like "high society" with all their diamonds and gold watches, etc. Rich looked like a conservative business man. Nothing flashy. A businessman.

If this business is the only way, then why aren't all of Dexter's kids diamonds? I mean, he has seven kids. You'd think if anybody could see how "great it is" they could! In fact, I think only one of his sons had a business (at that time, which was approximately 3 years ago). I've been there and seen the tape operation. His kids work for HIM, running the empire, specifically the tools business. Why go out in the trenches when you can sit back and do something relatively easy and make the bucks?

All in all, I would like to close by saying that while the majority of this experience was not what I would call "positive", I did learn a lot. Some parts of the "system" were of help, specifically the books. That's one area they cannot monopolize like the tapes. I am wiser having gone through this. My wife and I are much closer than before. We learned that if you don't cherish and protect each other, people will do anything to tear you apart.

If people choose to do this business, they should treat it as nothing but a business. If you want to do charity work, then do charity work. It's nice if in a business environment people can grow, but it shouldn't be used to manipulate them.

I was also in WWDB or World Wide as it is referred to in response #10. I was aware of a form requiring a signature before I could by tools however, I was neither given one nor was I required to sign one. Does anyone want to come inventory my tools? All kits we received were previously opened and specific contents were removed. Most importantly, all referances to the "10 customer rule" were removed. Apparently our upline didn't want to confuse us with the details. However, by mistake they were not removed from one kit. When I asked upline, the response I received was that you only had to have 10 customers in the actual month that you go direct.

Some other facts we were told:

1) No one profits from the functions.

2) No one profits from the sale of books and tapes. ( which was why no pv/bv either)

3) It is a HUGE mistake to not go to Leadership this is where you get the REAL info. Absolutely nothing new, masterfully desguised by coming right out in the beginning and telling you that you will hear nothing new here. Directly contrary to what you were told by your upline.

4) Don't do to Hawkins' Leadership, he is cross line and you'll get confusing information. You must go to Felber's Leadership or don't go at all and fail. {Who was the keynote speaker at Felber's Leadership? - Hawkins Who was the keynote speaker at Hawkins' Leadership? - Felber}

5) I asked for a refund on my Dream Night tickets and was told that there is no refund so I better go or sponsor someone who can go.

6) When I canceled my standing order, I was told the process would take about 3-4 weeks. So I received an extra 5 tapes. I was reluctant to refuse them because a friend was my direct upline and I didn't want to stick him with them. ( I guess I lost my Amway spirit.)

7) I was told on the "fast track" I would be a Diamond in 2-5 years. I was curious as to why one person in my upline was already at 4000 PV for about 1.5 years yet experienced virtually no growth despite being about 18 wide and showing the plan ~60 tomes a month. He walked across stage at Felber Leadership '96 as a double eagle. This is hyper track and he still may very well not be a Diamond in the next 1- 3 years. He may not even be a Direct by then. Especially since his immedaite downline just lost an entire leg at ~1500PV.

By the way, my sponsor discontinued Amway after discovering a lot of misinformation. But then, he had all ready attained the top 1.5 % of success in all of Amway so I think he felt he had allready accomplished a great deal. Perhaps you will recognize him in the latest Profile of Success. He will be in the 1500 PV section as that is the top 1.5% of all Amway distributors.

Good luck going Diamond and keeping your integrity intact. A virtually impossible endeavor.

AT LAST!!!!! The REAL TRUTH is out there! For three years I have been involved with World Wide DreamBuilders. The sad thing is I got involved at 18 years old! MY brother got involved at 19. Our Direct told him to quit school at UCONN, so he did. HE and my parents constantly fought about it. Thanks AMWAY! AS I look back, I see in this year alone, I am in debt $1300 dollars from 2 major functions where I had to travel from RI to Oregon. But they said "major decisions are made at major functions!" The only major decision I have made was to finally decide TO QUIT !!! Over three years I have about $1500 worth of tapes and literature. The sad thing is guys, I am a broke college student to begin with! I barely make 2,000 dollars a year!!!! But the upline told me to "do whatever it takes!" Easy for them to say, when they have full time jobs. AS far as the TOOLS go, our DD told my brother he did make a few cents off of tapes, but then he changed the subject. I am 21 now. Now I can start living my life like I want too!!! Maybe I can catch up on a few of the many parties I missed for the past three years. What a waste. Thanks Guys for taking a stand! It's so funny, but the only way amway works is based on people not quitting ( who aren't making money ) Not everyone can go Diamond, just like not everyone can be like Bill Gates. You guys are the REAL AMERICANS who are looking out for fellow citizens, making sure they are informed. WE should live our lives like we want to, not like Amway wants to.....I believe that is what America is all about. We are all unique, and our dreams should be ours, not Amway. Take care, and write back!

IF YOU SPENT AS MUCH TIME IN THE AMWAY BUSINESSAS YOU DO ON THIS GARBAGE YOU WOULD BE MAKING A LOT OF MONEY. IT IS GREAT.

I just wanted to comment on the Amway activity on the internet. I was introduced to Amway by a co- worker and they went through the whole spiel and I was almost pulled into their organization. It was after I started searching the net, did I find the type of negative things that I was having trouble finding. There was something about it, a "to good to be true" kind of feeling. After searching through web pages like yours was I able to get what I was looking for. Now that family members of mine are getting involved did I return to these web sites to send them some annonymous information. After doing a search today as compared to then is completely different. Before the majority of sites were anti-Amway. Now it seems as if Amway has launched a campaign or something to drown out the negative publicity on the net.

I have to admit I was suprised at all of the information you have compiled, as well as a little saddened. If you had spent half the time working in a shelter, on a phone line, or spending time woith lonely seniors at a nursing home the world would be a better place. I am a distributor, have been fairly successful, and have not encountered any of the things you talk about. I think there are different intrepretations of the business, and unfortunatley, some groups may intreprete aspects of the business differently. I am under Kenny Stewart, and have never been coerced, or told I would fail without the system. Buying tickets to the functions or rallies is my decision. Buying the tapes or books are also my decision. the books are those that I probably would have bought if I were not in the business anyway, and the tapes help put me in a more positive mood. If your home page shows anything it'ss that too many people are too negative today. Yes, bad things happen everyday, but we're alive! Shjouldn't we do whatever we can to enjoy it? I do hope that you cn find some joy in something in your life. If this business has done nothing else it helped me come out of a major depressive episode with a support group of wonderful friends.

I have only found one word to describe you...QUITER! If you put as much work in to your Amway Business as you did this web page you might have made something of your self and many other people, but you let your wife get all dressed up and pretty for the man she works for and you have a great and dull life......As Winston Churchill once said to a graduating class of college students" Never Never Never Never Give Up!!

Best wishes to you and I wish you well in what ever you decide to do in your life....Run For Your Dreams!!!

My wife and I are very glad we found your web site. Last month we got involved in some get rich quick scams and lost. And just this past tuesday we went to an Britt/Amway meeting and was pretty convinced that it was a good idea. Thanks for knocking some sense into us. We are both very investigative people. Last months venture unfortuanly we researched after the fact and lost money.

Wow Sydney,

Thank you so much for saving my life. I would never have known that I was making a huge mistake and ruining my life by considering joining Amway if it had not been for you! Can you tell me, how do you know all of this stuff, were you once an Amway distributor? Have you had first hand experience? Or do you just have a lot of free time on your hands? Or are you a lawyer just trying to drum up business in filing frivolous lawsuits?

Dear Sidney,

Thanks for the web site. I read it with great interest, since I have a "diamond" brother who has essentially removed himself from the family. Our situation has become somewhat more understandable to me, after my

reading on the net. Can you suggest a newsgroup for baffled family members and friends of Amwayers, to connect with? Also, do you know what the typical carrer projection is for someone once they reach the diamond level?

Hi Sid

My Amway experience was a good one, thanks to you! I was approached at a Chamber of Commerce meeting by someone who claimed to be in the "import/export" business. I liked the idea, and wanted to import some chocolate I was given from Madagasgar. Of course, when we met at a local restaurant for coffee, I was quizzed on what I wanted out of life and out came the circles and downlines and stuff. I had never been pitched amway before so I decided to look over some reading material and some tapes he gave me. The tapes(I received 5) were the same thing with the names replaced on each one I (whoever) was living in a rotten house and had no cash then came Amway and I worked real hard and now I can use dollar bills for tissue paper. On one tape the person (a diamond) talked about the importance of tape consumption in the downline. He would sit in his underwear eating Amway cereal and look over the tape purchase for the month(A site to see I am sure!). This is how he measured how well his business was doing, not by sales of Amway stuff but by tapes. This one fact turned me off. If the tapes were so important to him then the tapes, and not the traditional Amway business, was generating cash for him. Later I reasoned that any downline that bought the useless, mind-numbingingly- repetitive tapes would probably be buying the overpriced amway products as well (at least they were getting something for their money). I asked my prospective sponsor if there was money to be made on the tools(HE said no, but he was far too bright not to know the truth. Sid, I went to your page on the internet and found all the info I needed. To those thinking about going into Amway think about this to succeed you will have to stay in long enough to be made a "wiseguy" on the tools profits. You will have to "churn and burn" many people that you recruit, and you will have to swallow hard and lie when people ask you how your business really operates.

WOW!!! What a passel (sp?) of information! I cannot wait to read it all. One of my relatives married an Amway distributor and my husband and I suspected much of what your web page confirms--much to my dismay. I will read all your information and hopefully it will provide insight in how to persuade my relative to break this bond with Amway without breaking the marriage! Thank you for the effort you took to compile this information.

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