### Amway: The Untold Story

## Your Comments, Part 38

(7/97)

[Home] [ <--Previous bunch of responses ] [ Next bunch of responses--> ]

Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.

This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.

[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]

`I am an Amway Distributor, have been for over 10 years. I am proud that I served in the military for four years and two months, protecting your right to have this site. One observation: you are probably correct in a high percentage of your information, but this is still the best opportunity for the money invested in America today, I made the choice not to buy the "system materials" (my sponsor said she would help me either way) and am using my business skills to build my company, gee, guess what, I have made money, still have the same friends, still have the same family, and I am successful.`

Syd,

1. Find a dark corner
2. Pull that hair off that's stuck across your rear-end
3. Pass that huge volume of gas that's been stuck in your system for so long
4. Get a life

Thanjk you for interupting my thoughts with a christian web page, but I must and will tell you, right out, that Amway is not a cult. Amway is a company that has gotten rich buy providing a wonderful cleaner for the environment. The organizations that are affiliated with Amway are made up of wonderful human beings that desire to bring their own dream into reality. We would also enjoy helping others, to include yourself, to bring their ouwn dream to reality. We desire to place GOD first, family second and business third. If this business was a cult, it would not be accepted in al l the diferent countries that it is open in. You seen to be disallusioned by satan. I will pray to the holy spirit that he strengthens you so that you will think clearely about the Amway Corporation. The video and audio tapes are there to help teach us. If you haven't been able to learn anything, then you just might be confused. It is just like going to college. If you go to class but don't pay attention, absorb, comprehend and retain what you here, then your time was wasted, along with your money spent for the class. The business is a tool. You must use this tool correctly or it will not help you create the income that is available to you.

GOD be with you at all times

Amwy

You got to much time Bud, get a life.

Dear Mr. Schwartz,

Just this morning, I visited your Home Page "Amway: The Untold Story" for the first time. I was quite impressed with your page as being informative, intellectual and interesting.

My professional background is having been a psychologist for approx. 30 years now and being a part-time "MLM'er" (Amway, Melaleuca and Quorum) over the past several years. Most recently, I "rejoined" Amway after having last joined them when I was a senior in high school then quit a few months later.

Granted, I have only been "back" for four months but I really haven't observed or experienced the "Untold Stories" being communicated via your Home Page about the Amway Corp. and its Distributors. Be that as it may, I'm quite sure the Amway Corp. has it's "Untold Stories" and negative aspects as I do, as you do, as P&G does as IBM does, etc.

As a psychologist and as a renewed Amway Distibutor, I would like to know why you have singled-out the Amway Corporation to research and report it's "Untold Stories."

I am clinically guessing that you felt you were wronged or something by Amway eight years ago and you are now righting it?

It appears to me that you are on a crusade to place the Amway Corporation in a more than unfavorable light. If so, why?

Concerning the recent allegation that you are or were a consultant with P&G, simply, is this true? And lastly, if you are or were, when and why (role and reponsibility) were you hired as a consultant?

In closing, I value and honor our rights in the First Ammendment; I sincerely hope you will continue to "publish" your Home Page on the WWW. I look forward to both hearing from you and reading your Home Page.

Hi Sidney:

I thought I would update you since my last e-mail in March '97. I had printed off the transcript of Rich DeVos' "Directly Speaking" tape and showed it to my 'in deep' husband. He finally realized that Amway knew very well that these AMO's were milking thousands from distributors and could do nothing about it. As we were on SOT (I could not stomach more than 5 of these tapes, especially the ones were the wife should smile and laugh at her husbands' jokes during STP nights-like a good Stepford wife should), he began to add up what this 'wonderful business' was costing us, including tapes and functions. Thanks to your website, we are now 'free' to do what we wish-like paying our bills instead of going to functions. My husband now spends nights working on a Habitat for Humanity house building instead of showing the plan to polite but disinterested friends and family members. I volunteer as a CPR instructor for the American Red Cross instead of making coffee and putting out those disgusting Amway cookies to prospects. So go ahead, you Amway people, and call us 'losers' for getting out. Life is more than 'going diamond'.

Our 'best buddy' sponsors have not called or visited us since we got out. Our upline no longer calls asking when we can go out to dinner. Looks like we lost four friends but gained at least twenty by not eyeing everyone as potential prospects. Darn!

Before we got out, our upline was trumpeting the fact that Mike Ilitch, owner of Little Caesar's pizza, the Red Wings, and the Detroit Tigers as well as other business ventures in the Detroit area, was so impressed with Amway that he is now 'in the business'. Is there any merit to this?

Thanks a million, Sidney, for this web page and your courage to show the truth. You have our support.

Hello Sidney,

I've long read your articles on Amway that have been posted on USENET. I honestly never thought that I'd actually have to use them though.

Recently, friends of our family joined Amway through some of their relatives. I think you know what has happened.

They've invoked the law of reciprocation and are trying to make us feel guilty because we didn't buy a $600 set of pots and pans. Unbelievable. Now we can set things right if we just join as distributors.

I'm meeting with them and their upline this Tuesday. I've printed out most of the pages and will be prepared. If they're game I'll even show them the website directly.

Keep up the great work!

Dear Sir-

Why do all submissions to your page, both pro- and anti-Amway, have so many grammar and spelling mistakes?

Your site is stupid aand a waste of time and Web space.

All I can say is "keep up the good work " I went to one Amway meeting and these people are nuts. Hopefully one day they will be in prison if there is anything I can do to help let me know.

Sir,

I could not agree with you more about the fact that the Amway coorporation, more so the distributors under the yager system do indeed exhibit some cult like realities. After all God forbid that there is an organiation that is working hard to help out the common man and gives them a way to WORK hard at something worthwhile and then reward that person for doing so. In todays America, unfortunatley, that is not accepted and therefore must be a cult or illegal. Since we as Americans are now so used to having everything given to us and not working, then the Amway cooperation, based oin christian values and old fashioned hard work is not right. This cult teaches the uncommon American the rewqards associated with caring about his fellow man, hardwork, commitment, goal setting, and dreams.

Of course with a far majority of marriages in the United States failing, please do not teach us americans anything about commitments. I fwe cvan not have it our own way or given to us, then lets try and detstroy one of the best things to happen to this country in a long time.

I am at a lost about why you are working so hard to belmish the record of such an outstanding coorporation like Amway, but it would tend to lead one to believe that you were once a distributor, who like hunderdes that QUIT every year, thought it was not going to be hard work. Because of people like you and your friends constatnly bombarding the coorporation, it makes it that much harder for those of us that understand the meaning behind the cooportation. I do believe that your efforts should be directed towards the people who introduced you into the business. They are the ones that make the promises to you and are responsible for helping you. Amway is responsible for the products and research and now making sure that the money is transferred to the people who WORK to earn it.

If you are still reading this, i am by far anywhere near the diamond level as you may suspect. I would be thrilled to hit 2500 this month. I am not a product of the system yet. I have been a distributor for 3 1/2 years and have only hit 2000 pts. I DO KNOW that alot of the ideas and principals of the business have changed me. If they had not, i would have probaly lost my job and my family by now. Thanks to the Amway corporationa dn the yager system, i have both and am suceeding with both. i also know that I will eventually be a diamond in the Amway business becuase i am no afraid of a little hard work and the christian values that go along with the line of sponsorhsip i am in.

I hope that this reply will make it into your replys pages, but if it does not, it will not surprise me. If it does, please include my regular e-mail address of * in case others may want an opinion of someone who is building the business slow and still very happy, because he knows that it is a direct result of HIS EFFORTS and not the charity of someone else. Besides, if it was soo bad of a business, then why do most of the fortune 500 companies sell thier products through us? Are they just trying to destroy thier own businesses? And why does the Federal Government not shut it down? Before you continue to make claims against the Amway corporation, make sure it is Amway your beef is against and not another company that produces the tapes, videos and support materials.

You need a hobby my friend....from the looks of things you never did try to see both sides, but only took into account the negative side, which has been totally been blown out of proportion.....it is unfortunate that you will never amount to much and that your dreams are so negative, but we need people like you, and I will pray for people like you...so sir, take your lumps and enjoy your life

This is in response to the emails you are putting on your page. I am new to the internet so please excuse my either bad lingo or ignorance of it's capabilities.

First I must say that your page is very nicely done. There are a lot of great options and images portrayed here. It is also a great touch to actually have your readers emails in your program. You definitely did a good job in painting a vivid picture in your readers minds.

The one thing I don't quite understand is all the negativity that the Author is putting on the page. Most professionals that cover stories or take up a specific cause at least allow both sides of the story to be weighed. I have not see any positive of Amway told or even remotely conveyed here. The question I have is, "Has the author of this page been in the Amway business? Did the author have any of the same encounters as did the participants?" If not, I think that it is the responsibility of the author to tell us the readers, if there is another side. Because all causes and endeavors have there critics. The word cult,( meaning- 1.a system of religious worship or ritual 2. devoted attachment to a person, principle.) can have various depths of meaning. Most people think of cults as bad religious coos where animals or even people are sacrificed. Like I stated before, it can various depths of meanings. Some people thought democracy was a cult. Some people would say the Third Reich was a cult.. So to use the word cult in conjunction with Amway, I think, is bit out of context.

All I am trying to convey here is that in order to understand something, or to justify an act or publication, both sides of the story need to be presented. Maybe this should be done, then let the readers decide. I challenge you the Author to let the readers decide which is right and which is wrong. But if you are going to take up this challenge, please do us all a favor, and present it accurately. If you need any info. please don't hesitate to email me at *. Thank you and until next time....

I find your CR comparison interesting. However, In the July CR article the new Amway water filter was rated #1. You may want to update your information. Furthermore, I buy some of the products mentioned but you don't talk about diluting the product as all of those are concentrated.

I'm curious. What do you do for a living? Do you feel that you are an honest, ethical, and responsible person. Would you like to be type cast as a crook by people who dealt with an unscrupulous, dishonest person practicing your profession. Also, if I lose my job, will you pay my bills and cover my mortgage until I find something else? Just curious.

I had the opportunity to view your website. I found it very interesting. I have been an Amway Distributor the past four years and have gained valuable success information. I have developed public relation skills, leadership skills and focus of where I am going in the future.

I know there are people who have been burned by the Amway business or related systems, but there are other businesses or organizations that have burned people also. I find most of the time in any situation that people like trying to do things their way and if it doesn't work they can't take the resonsibility and must blame someone else or something else.

I am not a diamond or even a direct. As a matter of fact I have never reached 1000PV, I have not wasted money, I have saved money. I have gotten out of this business everything I have put into it. And people should realize this, if you only put part time effort into this business you will only get part time results.

This business is simple to build, but it is hard and will take effort. Most people who have a bad taste in their mouth from Amway are the ones who got in for a get rich quick scheme. When they found it did not work that way and that it would take hard work they got discouraged and got out. Most Americans take freedom for granted and feel that they are due something immediately, when in fact no one is due anything more than they work for.

I will be an Amway distributor until I leave this world. I may not be rich or successful materially but I will be successful where it counts, on the inside. Amway has given that opportunity to me and for that I am thankful.

I feel sorry for the people who feel that Amway drained their bank accounts. Amway has never taken more out of my bank account than I have allowed them to. People should realize that they are in control of their finances and responsible for decisions as what to buy and not to buy...but sometimes common sense is not to common.

Tapes, books and meetings are things that one chooses to do, not things one has to do in order to achieve in this business. I am not going to the next major function because I choose not to, I will be in Florida on a mission trip with my church youth group. I choose to do what I want to do in my business. The reason I don't have a big business is my responsibility, not Amway's or my uplines. I don't have a big business because I have not committed the needed time to talk with people and introduce them to the program. Once I make that commitment I will have a big business. Until then I am thankful that I am an Amway distributor at the level I am at. This business has given me more than my college education has given me.

If there is anything out there that is a better opportunity show me....I know there will be no response, for there is nothing out there that is better than Amway...

My upline is awesome...My sponsors and their sponsors, to my Sapphire Direct Jack Smith to his sponsor Executive Diamond Don Storms to his sponsor Crown Ambassador Direct Distributor Dexter Yager. These individuals are true leaders, people that have integrity, drive, caring, and a passion to help others. I respect these individuals and in no way believe they are taking advantage of me. These individuals are helping more than they will ever know. They are helping me grow on the inside and once that is done the growth in my business and what people see on the outside will come. Until then my prayers go out that my upline continue to be who they are, genuine people who are teaching others, helping others and caring for others.

Thank you for your time....Your page is a great page, for some people.

Have you ever tryed to order a phone service? Have you noticed that to order and maintain business line is a lot more expenceive than to order residential line? Do you have any idea why, and if you do let me know. Also tell me what does it have to do with having your own business.

Hint: Obviously there is a difference between personal expence and business expence.

By the way what do you do for a living?

Sidney -- Thanks for the prompt response to my e-mail. We found your web site to be MOST informative, and actually confirmed some of our gut feelings. We have decided to decline the invitation to "join," and curiously, find ourselves greatly releived. The pieces to me that were particularly helpful were the info in re: the court cases, and the stuff about the MLMs. Also, the info on Bill Britt and others and their tactics was the light bulb. . . as the folks who have approached us have showered us with tapes and other "motivational" materials which have had NO info about products, sales tactics, or anything else "useful." Just "You, too, can do it and have STUFF." It's amazing how close we came, however, to joining, and we are usually non-joiners for just about anything. They hit us where we were vulnerable, which is economically -- not that we crave a lot of "STUFF," but that we would like to have more control of our free time, little that we have with both of us working full time. As for us, we'll keep looking for another way.

Dear Mr. Schwartz:

No need to reply to this email, but feel free to quote from it at will, if you wish, on your website.

I don't recall how I linked to this site (and am too lazy to backtrack to find out), but once I got here, I had a dilly of a time. Probably I took the time I did to read most of it (and I did read most of it), because A) my father worked for P&G for most of his working life, and if P&G's a satanic company, then they're incredibly good at hiding it, and B) a number of years ago someone tried to lure me into Amway.

A) I spent most of my young life with a father employed by Procter & Gamble. The idea that P&G is a satanic company is totally and completely absurd. Anyone who would believe such a thing is in serious need of a working intelligence. Though, of course, many of my parents' friends were fellow P&G employees, they also had many non-P&G friends and associates, and never did I ever witness or experience anything along the lines of typical Amway tactics, as you have amply described on your site, to isolate and indoctrinate recruits and/or participants. All large organizations, be they business entities or religions or governments or whatever, quite naturally have a tendency to foster a "family" structure among their members. P&G has its own "day" at King's Island amusement park, for instance. Religious groups sponsor outings for their members. All large groups encourage their members to fraternize (well, maybe not the military). But coercion is another kettle of fish altogether, as you have well documented.

B) I am a merchant by trade (primarily buying and selling entertainment software) and an actor/director by avocation (having been active in community theatre and various independent filmwork for the past 12+ years). A number of years ago (early 90's) I was invited to sign up with a particular young woman's "talent agency." She seemed personable, industrious, and projected an air of competence and interest that I found appealing. I signed up. After getting a few small jobs through her agency, I was invited to a meeting by her brother. The meeting, of course, was an Amway recruitment meeting. I put two and two together rather quickly, and politely declined any further involvement. Results: this personable, competent woman ripped me off for the pay I was due for the last commercial job she had gotten me. Her agency folded up shortly thereafter. And, in retrospect, I realized that I had been ripped off for costly resume/headshots that no reputable agent would have dared suggest I pay for. Live and learn, right?

So, I just wanted to let you know that I found your site extremely interesting and I wish you the very best in your efforts to expose this deceitful enterprise for what it is: a costly, debilitating scam. Down with Scamway.

Grow up and get a Life!

Great Site,

I had meeting tonight with someone who was trying to push something very similar to Amway, IDA.... to cut the story short he explained that Amway ran some warehouses and did the deliveries but that was the only link to Amway, other wise I would be dealing with IDA, and promoting the service of HSD, home shopping distribution. Is the more to IDA and Amway than what is being made out ? It appears to be an australian duplication of Amway. Hey I was even given three audio cassettes to listen to before requesting further information, if you want a copy you'll have to let me know pretty quick as I'll be sending them back as I got them, unopened that is.

My friend is an Amway distributor and suggested the above product since my kids were itching from another, non-Amway detergent. I received my box yesterday and was charged including shipping & tax, $30. $30 for a box of laundry detergent! I called my friend to question the price and she gave me the usual Amway song and dance about product concentration. I think this argument may have worked 10 years ago (the last time I paid much attention to Amway), but nowadays ALL laundry detergents are concentrated. I did a little price analysis by stopping at the most expensive, organic grocery store I could find. In my analysis, I did not include the shipping charge.

Here are the results:

    Price per use		Product

    22 cents		Most expensive "green" detergent in store
    20 cents		Arm & Hammer no colors, no perfumes
    32 cents		SA-8 Bioquest (39 cents with shipping)

A 45 percent price premium. I really feel sorry for those 99% of Amway distributors who have to buy this stuff and lose money!

[For more information see the three detailed price comparisons here on AUS, and my summary of Consumer Report's rating of Amway products.]

Hello makin it short.......

Please save me I need to know Amway when first talked about and introduced goes by another name, to lure us into it since ("AMWAY" the name) has such a negative reputation to most people?

See a co worker has been talkin to me about something really darn similar to the amway system but he calls it "INTERACTIVE DISTRIBUTION"

Do know if thats another name for it? If not have you heard of this? it sounds real similar....please help!

Dear Sidney,

I haven't visited your site in a while, and the updates are great! I am still trying to convince my elderly widowed mother to get out of this "business" before all of her money is gone! So far, I am still unsuccessful, and our family life is suffering! None of my siblings can stand to be around her as she is always trying to sell some piece of crap! It is very embarrassing to go anywhere with her or have friends visit, because she is always trying to sell something!

I keep reading the responses you are getting, and the pattern continues. The poorly written, misspelled, obscenity-filled responses are from pro-amwayites. The well-written, reasoned, logical responses are from those people who see amway for what it is!

My mother's latest argument is that Gerald Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer(?) are both amway distributors. I would love to know if either have ever had any such involvement with amway. Gerald Ford, I could understand, he had trouble walking and talking at the same time, but Michelle Pfeiffer????? Puh-LEASE!!

Anyway, my congratulations to you on a quality web site. Keep up the good work, Sidney. You are doing more good than you will ever know!!

I find it somewhat amusing that you focus so relentlessly on the systems of tapes-books-rallys promoted by organizations of Amway distributors.

How I would love to see such an expose done on universities in the U.S. The amount I and my college peers spent on books,tapes, & computer disks at college was astounding. Some courses required multiple books, some with $60+ price tags. I'm sure the university marked them up and made a profit off of them - after all, even the public universities are businesses.

But, you see, I felt my EDUCATION was important. It meant the difference between success and failure to me. I would have been very skeptical of any university that didn't REQUIRE me to buy the tools and attend the classes necessary to learn how to perform well in my chosen field.

Why should it seem odd, then, that to learn to become a successful Amway Distributor (or a successful anything else for that matter) requires purchasing an education. Tools to study from, and teaching from experienced people who have been successful in the field a person wants to be successful in.

I also was very impressed at the amount of factual information you listed. You have done well in your research and I applaud you for that. However, there was information I noticed that was completely unfounded and not backed up by any factual examples. Specifically, on your page at "www.teleport.com/~schwartz/bartlett.htm" the Bartlett vs. Amway lawsuit, you state:

"A distributor who is willing to spend enough money can even buy his or her way to the Diamond level. Why would someone do this? Because once at the higher pin levels, a distributor can participate in the lucrative "tools" business and receive money from motivational tapes & books, rally tickets, and speaking fees."

Shame on you for making such a statement and not offering any facts to back up your claim. The fact is, that in order to reach the pin level of Diamond, a distributor must aid 6 other people in becoming a direct distributor (7500PV). While it is possible to buy your way into a direct distributorship, the approximate cost to do so would be $15,000 just for one month (BV averages 2.2x the PV amount and the distributor cost of products is sometimes lower/sometimes higher than the BV amount making it approximately equal to BV on average). After that month, assuming you can't purchase another $15,000 worth of PV, you lose all bonuses. You can keep the pin, but it's pretty much just a nice lapel decoration. If you don't continue to perform, you don't get paid. So, to buy your way into a Diamondship, you'd have to be a direct yourself ($15,000) and pay for 6 others to go direct ($15,000 x 6 = $90,000) and then you have to stay at that level (remain qualified) for 6 months in order to become a Diamond and receive bonuses for that pin level ($15,000 + $90,000 = $105,000 [$105,000 x 6 months = $630,000]) As you can see by my calculations, which are conservatively estimated and substantiated if you care to research them, it would cost you approximately $630,000 to buy your way into a Diamond pin level just to "participate in the lucrative 'tools" business."

I hardly think that's a reasonable investment! In addition to that, I'd like to point out that at least in the World Wide Dream Builder organization of Amway distributors, speakers pay their own costs to fly all over the U.S. speaking. They do this because they believe that their Amway businesses are helping people make positive financial changes in their lives. In MANY instances, some that I have personally observed, these speakers will pay to fly to a speaking engagement for an entire weekend and give seminars on being a successful distributor EVEN WHEN THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN THE ROOM WHO IS DOWNLINE FROM THEM AND THEREFORE THEY ARE RECEIVING ABSOLUTELY NO FINANCIAL BENEFIT FROM BEING THERE.

I hope my statements have at least shown you another perspective on the support system and tools that pass through Amway organizations. If not, then it might behoove you to post another site advising parents what to do when their children return from college as Freud spouting zombies. I'd also like to challenge you to reconsider your statement about buying into the Diamond pin level. The figures I have based my calculations on are available on the Amway Sales & Marketing Plan brochure (SA-4400) which is on file with the FTC if you care to check them.

Hello, My Name is *. I am borrowing a co-workers account as I am only a part time employee at this company. I have a very personal vendetta against the Amway corp., and its AMO's. I have now lost a loving, caring and wonderful woman in my life to the people of scamway.

"K" was actually in the Yager/Florence line of sponsorship before we met. When we met she no longer showed interest in her upline or Amway. I moved in with her two years after we met and after finishing grad school planned on marrying. After a two year absence from her business, (she always kept renewing however) she went back. Her upline and his wife constantly harassed her to go back. I really didn't know much about Amway, nor did I care. Things started to go sour when we couldn't make the mortgage payments twelve months ago. I didn't know where the money was going. Later I found out that $400 to $500 a month was going to tapes, functions and products. I emptied my 401K to make up for the three months of delinquency and took serious penalties on my retirement savings.

After a year of dating she then began to drag me to house meetings, mini rallies and functions. The folks seemed very nice. What I found amazing was that for every speaker at the function these people would hang on every word. They would even throw in a few halelujah's. I became very skeptical when "K's" upline direct dragged me up to meet the speaker of this function. This person new everything about me. Which scared me.

"K's" upline then arranged a meeting with me which of course I did not want to attend. He postured me into going. Posture of course is a key word in the teachings of Amway. He kept repeating that he was a very busy person and that if I wanted to get into this "business" I would have to meet with him. "Is Tuesday or Thursday a good day for you?" He kept repeating himself. No! But I went out of curiosity and kindness for him and my girlfriend. We met in the parking lot at a Freindly's. He opened the window and asked me to get into his Cadilac. I did. (Big mistake.) We drove around suburban Westchester, New York looking at gigantic houses. He called this dream building. I called it annoying. He told me that my dreams weren't big enough. That I was only a teacher and that being an elementary school teacher is not a very big dream. This to me was a personal attack on my dream. I have always wanted to be a school teacher and love what I do. We made it back to the parking lot after I told this chump I was annoyed. (Hint) He popped the trunk anyway and pulled out a large box. This box of course is a KIT. For $150.00 I could have this box filled with Amway crap. I told him that my girlfriend has about six of those things in the basement. I'll use one of hers. "Noooooo!!!! I could never do that. I would have to buy my own". At this point I said thanks but no thanks. (More posturing ensued) "Well what don't you like about the business?" I said, high pressure sales. "Why do you say that?" Because you sound like a used car salesman. "Why do you say that?" Now this guy didn't realize this but I went to a function were this tactic was being taught to the zombie distributors after all the prospects had left. I played this "why do you say that?" game with him until he said, "What part about the Amway business do you like?" I knew the answer, Money! "Well, if we could work around some of this negativity would you be willing to give me a few names and numbers so you could make money in this?" I politely said, NO. He eventually stopped bothering me a few weeks later. He must have called me twice a day for two weeks asking me if I listened to any of the tapes he gave me.

My girlfriend wasn't too happy about this. My explanations about my skepticism went in one ear and out the other. We remained together for another year and major fights between the two of us ensued about the bills and Amway. Needless to say she is being foreclosed on by the bank and will soon lose her house. Her upline Emerald's "Ken and Barbie" have counseled her to move on in our relationship and give up the house. They have even attempted to make arrangements for her to see another distributor in their organization from South Carolina. Nice people? I don't think so. I had to leave her for my own mental health. However, I keep in touch with her as much as I can. I still love her dearly and want to help her.

I thought diseases such as alcoholism could only be cured through wanting to help yourself. I felt the only way to help her is if she wants the help. This is not the case with Amway. She is psychologically programmed and cannot help herself. Nor, does she want the help. I am not a psychologist but a humble elementary teacher. I do not have the answers or professional background to help her. All I know is she desperately needs help. My next step is to talk to her parents. What can I do?

I hired an attorney to help her get back on her feet and save her house. The attorney isn't very happy with her since she just flew to Florida for anther Amway meeting and was told not to go on any trips because the courts would frown on this. Well with expert advise from her uplines Ken and Barbie, "K" may not have a place to live.

There is a ton more to this story and I would love to tell it. Just sitting here typing away at the computer has let me vent. I vigorously want to pursue an anti Amway campaign. There are a few people on the NET who are real activists such as yourself. What about explaining this information to the non internet people. Placing flyers on windshields in parking lots at functions might save a few people. Picketing outside of the Fleet Center (Boston) or in Charlotte, NC. when a huge function has gathered would be a wonderful idea. Are there any organizations that hold anti-Amway rallies at various functions? Something has to be done...

By the way. Your web page is brilliant. On your Christian Connection page you do not have information on the Goads. The Goads are an Amway function band. The crowds at the functions DIG the Goads. They play all of the big time functions. They also have a Christian Fundamentalist background and constantly beg for money at functions for the poor. How much of this $$$ actually gets to the poor I don't know. They also send ton's of mail to us with a strong fundamentalist message usually begging for your tax deductible dollars. More $$$ to throw away. "K", has spent a few hundred $$$ on Goad charity and tapes. Yes, they have tapes too.

There is also a US. Congressional Representative, I think her name is Sue Mirek from Charlotte, North Carolina on the Amway payroll. She constantly stumps for Right Wing Republican ideals and begs for money. Of course everyone opens their checkbooks. From what I understand, she is Dexter Yager's pawn in placing pro Amway legislation in the House of Representatives. I once saw her speak at a function in Greenville, S.C. and raise at least $10,000 in one stump. This is a brilliant but unethical way of raising campaign money. This serioulsy needs to be investigated.

The names have been changed to protect the wonderful woman involved. My name remains the same.

If you need any information on the above matters please feel free to contact me at *.

Great information on your page. I live in Bermuda where there is a heavy Amway presence. During the last three weeks, I have attended two Amway presentations and I was impressed with the "pitch" But a few things did not seem right and after some further checking I came across your page and it answered all of the questions I had about Scam.. um I mean Amway.

Tonight I gave copies of your information and a few other linked info on Amway and it practices to the sponser trying to join me up. He went into immediate denial of everything I showed him, but I stuck to my guns and told him I did not want anything to do with Amway. In fact I will be taking out a few ads in the local newspaper next week to point other unwary victims to your Internet site.

Keep up the good work and if ever you are in Bermuda, look me up.

After looking at your web-page I see a lot of old information and have to wonder...WHY...would someone invenst the time and money to put together a page like this. Is anyone, oh say, Proctor & Gamble, for instance, paying you. Just what is "Schartz, the untold story"

Good day Schwartz!

I was just browsing through the net and came across your page......I am really sorry you feel that way.....Have you been in the business and if so how long were you in because i know you aren't in now....

I don't understand where you get your ideas and thoughts about a mullti-billion dollar company that is growing like mad all over the world!!! please inlighten me with what you think.....

I 'm confused....Did somebody put a gun to your head at some point or what..someone that frightened has to have a a gun to their head>>>> just my opinion....

business owner..

My husband and I attended a rallie where we were asked to donate to gospel films, is it a scam? We thought it seemed worthwhile, they were showing the movies to "bad teens" and it was helping them become better people. Now that we have been out of Amway for 6 months, we have gained a much healthier perspective. We Quit after hitting 1000, then dropping to 200 the next month and our upline ruby yelled at us in our own home, where a guest was present and about 20 other distributors, for not having enough people there. Said he could no longer afford to spend time on us. We gave our up-line ruby one last chance to save face at a "nuts & bolts" meeting. The wife proudly said "You can't replace your upline, but you can always replace your downline." Wanna bet, we quit! We assumed we would get back in later, with a better upline but now I don't know.

e-mail me back if you have any questions on the Gospel Films thing, I think I still have some literature. Take care.

Good Evening

God bless America, the land of Free Enterprise where a man can set his goals as high as his dreams can take him! I long to live the life of a *Diamond* and tan my Christian bod on the beaches of the world with other enterprising patriotic Christians.

I thought to myself, what better opportunity in the land of the free and the home of the brave than *Amway*, which my brethren told me is the contraction for AMERICAN WAY! I'm anxious to get involved as soon as someone can give me some straight answers. I'm very fortunate in that The Good Lord blessed me with the imagination to dream big, the courage to take action, the willingness to work hard, and the wisdom to analyze.

When one has spiritual questions, the natural thing to do is search the *Bible* for answers. When one has non spiritual questions, the natural thing to do is to connect with the other 50 million users of the *Internet*. The first thing I did was to log onto *Amway*. I was most impressed with the owners, both of whom have a net worth of over 3.2 billion dollars each, according to Forbes. Another thing that impressed me was the 6.8 billion dollars of retail sales worldwide! I feel proud to be an American, knowing that the AMERICAN WAY is in 75 countries (and growing!). I understand that with hard work, a good system with plenty of support (like WWDB, INA, Network 21 and a host of other marketing groups), and dreams, I too can be a *Diamond* in 2 - 5 years and tan my retired Christian bod on the beaches of the world with one of 1,000 other *Diamonds*. It must be very spiritually uplifting to be in a sales force with 2.5 other million Christian salesmen. I looked forward to the day when I could be my own boss, but at the same time, start the day with prayer, devotion, bible reading, hymn singing praises to our Savior with my upline sponsor, the upline *Diamonds* and other Christian salesmen.

I thought that *Amway* must be a wonderful corporation if they pay 68 cents back to the salesmen on each dollars sold. I fully understand that it costs at least 32 cents to produce, ship and package the products which I want to sell. Praise the Lord! Of the 6.8 billion dollars of sales, we, who toil, who faithfully serve *Amway* would be getting back 4.62 BILLION DOLLARS for our hard work! What could be better? What other corporation in America, or even in the world can be so generous to their salesmen? I was mentally counting the large sums of money I would make and save. My brethren tell me that even the lowest paid of *Diamonds* clears 15 THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH!!!! And there are a least 1,000 *Diamonds* worldwide! GO DIAMOND! GO DIAMOND! GO DIAMOND!

I know the world is full of negative dream stealer LOOSERS like you. We should not watch TV, not read the newspaper or anything not approved by our upline, not associate with any LOOSERS, and, if need be, divorce our spouse if she doesn't wholeheartedly support us. I mean, after all, a woman, according to the Gospel of Yager / Britt, is a second class citizen whose purpose in life is to produce more winners (*AMWAY* salesmen) and to handle the back-office administrative support stuff while the *MAN* of the house does the *MANLY* things like going out to show the plan, attending meetings, rallies and selling to at least 10 customers.

According to my spreadsheet, (I hope the uplines permit you to use computers and spreadsheets to maximize your efficiency so that you have more time to show the plan) you need at least 180 MILLION DOLLARS to pay the *Diamonds* (1,000 *Diamonds* x 12 months x $15,000 per month). I am dreaming of being part of the people who share this 180 MILLION DOLLARS EACH YEAR. That leaves 4.44 BILLION DOLLARS to pay the rest of us 2,499,000 who are *Diamonds* in the waiting. That averages out to $1,778.31 per year for the rest of us, or, $148.19 per month or $34.20 per week. If I have a standing tape order, costing $12 a week, I would earn $22.20 per week, before taxes. If I *invest* another $10 on the book of the week (to build my business), and another $5 for the meeting / rally / function of the week, I will be earning $7.20 per week. MOST KIDS WHO DELIVER NEWSPAPERS EARN MORE THAN THAT!! This will be my average earning. But who wants to be average? The sad new is that some of y'all will be *below average* because I haven't deducted the money needed to pay the *Emeralds*, *Rubies*, *Pearls*, etc. This would bring down the average even more. I must be missing something somewhere.

Sidney Schwartz, get a life, you're a real bastard for STEALING MY DREAM OF EARNING $7.20 per week (for 8 to 10 hours of work) before taxes and other necessary business expenses like gas, *AMVOX*, travelling expenses, hotels, food, etc. Sidney, you're a LOOSER and a QUITER for depriving me of the experience of a 3rd world salary in America. I prayed for guidance, but each time, the devil's tool (my spreadsheet) told me the same thing. It would be great if we were all *Diamonds*. We could solve many problems like homelessness, disease, hunger. If all of us earned $180,000 a year, *Amway* would have sales of $660 BILLION DOLLARS!!!! They would pay back 68 cents on the dollar or $450 BILLION DOLLARS to us 2.5 million *Diamonds*! If we each worked hard, faithfully and showed the plan 15 times a month, if we had the courage to face adversity, to handle rejection and continue to show the plan 15 times, knowing that SW,SW,SW (some will, some won't, so what), we can each sign up 5 new distributors a month!!!!! With a year of hard work, faith, prayer, we will have 150 MILLION *AMWAY* SALESMEN!!!! And next year promises to be even bigger!!! Those 150 million salesmen will show the plan 15 times a month and sign 5 new recruits a month! And we will have 9 BILLION *AMWAY* DISTRIBUTORS!!!!! And, IF *AMWAY* IS NOT A PYRAMID SCHEME, THOSE 9 BILLION *AMWAY* DISTRIBUTORS WILL NEED 90 BILLION Customers, according to the 10 customer rule. 90 Billion people is 18 times the total population of Earth! So, if you *AMWAY* guys are not showing the plan 15 times a month and signing up at least 5 people a month, you're not working the system, you are a LOOSER, QUITER, WIMP, an unworthy piece of SH!T who should not even breathe the same air as your upline *Diamond* hero. And if you are signing up 5 distributors a month, WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET YOUR 90 BILLION CUSTOMERS IN 1999? I must be doing something wrong.

I have a couple of questions for you pro-*AMWAY*ers. If there are 9 billion winners (also known as *AMWAY* distributors): Where do I go to buy my Ferrari if there are no Ferrari salesmen? Who will build my $24 million mansion with the 60 bathrooms filled with concentrated *AMWAY* products bought from my own store? If everyone sold *AMWAY*, where do I go to get airline tickets to fly to the beaches of the world? I'd rather listen to one of you RICH MEN SHOW ME HOW TO GET RICH than a poor man tell me how to stay broke!!!!

Sidney isn't stealing your dreams, he's just injecting you with a serious dose of badly needed reality. Many of you think Sidney spends hours maintaining this website each day. If you know anything about webmastering, you'll figure out that after he put together the website, he probably doesn't spend more than 20 minutes a day to update it. That's less than the time you need to show the plan. You don't even say *Amway* in the first 20 minutes of your presentation. Many of you accuse him of only presenting one side. I've read many pages of responses, and he's posted many responses where you "Christians" tell him to *FUCK OFF* and get that *SHIT* off the Internet without censoring them or even cleaning them up a bit first. If you don't like what you're reading, why do you stay here and continue to read? THE TRUTH HURTS, DOESN'T IT? Why don't you go and attend a rally or something?

Many of you have asked what Sidney has to offer as an alternative to *AMWAY*. Well, Sidney is not your mother. But, since you asked, let me give you a couple of answers. Not all businesses require a specialized skill or a huge investment of money, just some brains and some hustle. As a simple example, for under $20, you can buy a plastic bucket, some soap and a squeegee and have your own window cleaning business. You get work by knocking on doors, your neighbours' as well as some busy small businesses. You won't make much, but you'll make more than a winner (the $7.20 a week that your typical average *AMWAY* distributor makes). For about $3, you can buy a home-business magazine (such as Income Opportunities). You'll get a lot of ideas for low priced businesses in there. You can own your own business for under $500 (cost of an *AMWAY* starter kit and 3 month of tools that you need to build your business like the standing order tape and book of the week). You can get into locksmithing, gun repair, leather and vinyl repair, windshield repair, car detailling, carpet cleaning, etc. etc. And it can be profitable from day one. Don't let *AMWAY* blind you and stand in the way of your own creative genius.

Please post this, I would like to get a reply from an honest *Amway* distributor. Please remove my name, I don't want to be labelled as a stupid Bible thumper, or a dream stealer, or a looser (is that how we are supposed to spell 'loser' in *Amway*) or a quiter (do they mean 'quitter'?)

Do you have a job or anything else to do with your life besides pulling other people down.It is to bad you can only see the down side but I have never seen anything that is perfect or any person who is perfect,but you apparently believe you know it all which means there is nothing else for you to do with the rest of your life.

Is going after your goals such a bad thing? What business do you know of that you do not have to invest both time and money in? I suppose that your company does not make money off of you? Thats business It is how it works.

Oh --- The AMWAY business works. We are debt Free my wife is a full time mom and I'm leaving my job this year and we have extra money even though we buy those tapes you so fondly talk about. And you are right we do make money on the tapes but again that is business. This is America.

I hope one day you decide to build something instead of tearing down others.

I have read some of the stories on your site. I have to smile when I read these. I was an Amway distributor many years ago and yes I spent a lot of money going to all their meetings buying their tapes and reading the books suggested to me. I did not make any money.

The reason I didn't make any money is because I quit and chose not to go ahead with the business. But it doesn't mean I am going to add to the mass of whinging ex-distributors. Every person in life has a choice. The Amway business presents to people an opportunity to work very hard and achieve results.

I am 25 years old, I am a single female living in a country town on my own. It is my choice to live on my own. It is my choice that I work very hard to support myself. It is my choice to work in the industry that I do. It would also be my choice to join a distributor network like Amway or Herbalife or any of the others that offer an opportunity.

This is what life is all about. We can make a choice whether we live it or not. We are given the choice of committing suicide , spending life working very hard and trying to get ahead. or just jump on unemployment and bum our way through.

Unfortunatley there are people who through whatever makes us what we are will never have the strength to go out on their own and make a strong choice and committ themselves and be successful in anything. Some people love to have a go at things just to prove to you that it can be failed and then they spend their next however many years complaining about how successfully they failed.

Unfortunately Amway attracts everyone because it is up to each individual to choose who they sponser.

Some people get caught up in the positive atmosphere, some are just attracted to the business because there is attention there, for the first time in their lives someone is taking the time and giving them the attention they may not have had in years. Yes this is because unless they do anything with their distributorship the sponser does not benefit from sponsering them.

If we take this concept and expand it to life, we have people living in poverty and people living in the lap of luxury. Some are lucky and are born into a very comfortable position, but for the rest of us we are born and all are given the same opportunities as everyone else.

We are born equal.

Take ten people, take them away from their job, their home, and everything they know. Give each of these ten people one hundred dollars each, they are all equal in every physical way - weight,height, and physical attractiveness. There is no rational reason why one of these people would or could in one year be in a better position than any other. But you know as well as I do, some are survivors , some are not.

These ten people are human and are thrown into a thing called life, one may committ suicide unless they can maybe find someone else to follow and lean on, one may become mediocre, get a job, house, family etc. , and one will be a millionaire.

This is life, welcome to it.

Amway is very similar. Same senario - same results.

Some just get caught up and dragged along until they emotionally and yes financially cannot continue.

The same people that will give you the bad luck stories about Amway have just given you a template of their lives. This template will fit over everything they have done in their lives. Everything they have done or will do will follow the same pattern.

I am not for or against Amway, I have just given you my personal opinion of life.

I live away from and observe people by my choice, and until I decide - actually make a decision to change this I will be a loner in everything I choose to do.

What a revolution you lead. It would be nice for you to share what your current income might be with all your readers. If you had put forth half the effort in the Amway business opportunity, that you have in this web site, yo'u be a ealthy person.

Isn't it a shame that the Amway Corporation sells, Tapes, Video's and dreams, that we can buy (don't have too, remember), that will give us hope, confidence and courage to step out of the norm. Isn't it a shame that these things make you feel good, unlike your site. How good did you actually feel setting this up.

After you get home from your J.O.B. tommorow, and I assure you that you do have one. If you have time, please share this with your readers. Make us feel real good about your life after Amway. I bet you won't even rear your pitiful head. Come on, are you making $40,000 yet? Be honest. Of course Money isn't everything, just ask the owner of the establishment your earning money for every day for the rest of your working life.

That's right, you will work until your 65, or a little earlier if your wanting to have a little less of your benefits, or you'll die before then, and your family, if you found anyone with that cloud you carry, will get what? Let's see, form the Government, there should be a little bit, how about that boss, what's he gonna give your family, 5% of you income maybe. Boy, they must feel so secure.

Well, I'm about negatived out, your such a leader. Have a nice life.

Amway - plain and simple, is not for the faint of heart. While it builds tremendous business relationships between downlines and uplines, it destroys long-time friendships as well. When you walk into a friends home and he tells you he just bought a new phone and you say to him "Why didn't you buy your phone from me? I sell phones, too!" friendships erode. The "curiosity" approach is so antiquated its mind-boggling to watch. How many of us who have found outdstanding MLM opportunities elsewhere have heard the phrase "Thank God its not Amway". That's Amway's fault. They haven't fixed their tarnished image nor does it appear they are ready to do so. There's still money to be made in Amway, but there's plenty of money elsewhere in less difficult MLM companies. My e-mail address is * if you'd like to respond personally. As a journalist, I'm glad to see freedom of speech in this forum.

I was reading in your consumer report section, and I noticed that the best buy for the money was determined by cost per ounce. I'm sure that you have noticed that if you use the same amount, for each use, of Amway's product as with most others you have a mess. Personally, I would find Dish drops at 24 cents a better deal than the Polmolive at 12 cents per ounce if I can get five times as many sinkfulls of suds with that one ounce. COST PER OUNCE CAN NOT BE USED TO COMPARED WITH CONCENTRATED AND UNCONCENTRATED PRODUCTS. The burgler alarm is a poor comparison, because they are different brands, models, and quality (Just like you can go to Sears and find TVs ranging anywhere from $59 to $6000. The only thing that I have found to be over priced in the Personal Shopper's catalog is the computer systems, but two other factors go into the pricing of those (the rate at which computers are outdated, and proprietary systems are generally expensive).

I do have one question. What were the circumstances that lead to you losing your distributorship in the Amway business. I know that in the "kit" you open upon entering the business, it is stated in that little manual that one requirement is that you be a believer of God. Now, it is my understanding that this would clear Amway of any blame, however I have never seen anyone lose their distributorship. But, I would expect them do take action if the person attended one of those rallies protesting in some manner that would effect the image of Amway to the new prospects at the rally.

The speed of your reply was most unexpected and most appreciated .....and the importance of it is alot more to me then you think, see I'm in the process of starting a small exporting busniess with my wife, products that I have access to here in miami and am sending to south america ......something thought up by my self, and truthfully I'm really excited about it.....see I get my first cut of profit on wednesday not much about 500 dollars for a months' effort, not bad for a little shopping and sending......but more importantly it has tremendous potential!

Becuase I used very little of my money to be safe the profit wasn't very much this time around but little by little that can grow as I will learn, and the last thing I need really is to be side tracked by something that can be potentially dangerouse to me and my family financially and or emotionally.

I'm a 26 year old that had a set of unexpected twins girls 8 months ago and I need to minimize my chances to making mistakes as much as I can..............

Is people like you that I can reach out to for the information I need to help minimize my chances to mistakes and can learn from in my life that I'm truely grateful to.

Truly that has no price ..........Again thanks a million and may the higher power you beleive in, help you achieve your goals and dreams.........like the amway sayin goes.............................. may you go "DIAMOND"

hehehe!

[Home] [ <--Previous bunch of responses ] [ Next bunch of responses--> ]