### Amway: The Untold Story

## Your Comments, Part 22

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Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.

This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.

[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]

`Sidney,`

Thanks for responding to my letter. I would like to tell you again that I think you are doing an excellent job with your website. You are educating people about what is really going on with Amway. I never really took the time to read about the Canadian fraud case so thank you for summarizing the information for me. I'm not surprised. I guess I'm just amazed that Rich and Jay have made so much money with this while such a small percentage of (devoted) people have made an enough money to "set them free", yet there are still tens of thousands of people out there who believe they will one day be free too.

It's funny, but I went to the dentist yesterday and as I was getting out of my car I noticed an Amagram in the backseat of the car next to mine. This car was a mid-eighties Pontiac Grand Am that looked pretty worn. (It's funny, but I've never seen an Amagram in a Mercedes!) As I walked into the dentist's office I looked back at the car and saw a "Driving for Diamond" license plate holder. I started laughing! This is the typical scenario! Some person spending all his money in the system and (probably) going backwards financially, but still keeping the "positive attitude".

Don't you find it amazing that Yager can get Zig Ziglar, Les Brown, Charles Schuller, Ed Cole, etc. to speak and lend credibility to his organization? Although I guess if I was getting paid $25-50k+ to speak I wouldn't care either (as long as it was a legal organiztion). People have to be telling themselves "If Zig is Dexter's pal, then this must be good!"

Also, I inadvertently left out in my letter one other thing about the Amvox from my diamond when he was slamming me. He also said that if I wasn't in the business and in the system, that he wanted nothing to do with me. He said that I had nothing he wanted and that there was no reason for us to associate anymore. The one last thing he said was "... but I think you are a special guy.." Apparently he didn't feel that way thirty seconds before, but he is so conditioned to say those kind of things that it's just automatic. The reason I had left him the message about why we were getting out in the first place was because our sponsor told me that this diamond loved and cared about me so much that no matter what I chose to do with my life, he wanted to be my friend. That I could always depend on him to be there for me, etc... Yea, right.

Sidney, I'm glad it happened the way it did because it made my decision easy. Otherwise, I might have held on because I would have believed the lie. It's a powerful thing when you couple the potential to make money with the facade that somebody really will help you. It's unfortunate that in our society people's self worth is generally pretty low. If people have a strong sense of self worth they will not be easily conned.

Anyway, keep up the good work and I hope to hear from you soon.

I had one other question. Did you ever notice that no diamond (or anybody at direct and above) really ever said what they were actually making in the business? They only alluded to their income, i.e., "we are millionaires, we are financially free, we have this and that and therefore appear to be rich". Not once did I ever hear a diamond (or emerald, pearl, or direct) say "I made this amount of money this year, $ from Amway and $ from tools." Everything is an illusion.

I did have a pearl tell me one time (who had 2 diamonds in his downline in one leg) that his 4% check was $1500 one month. I thought "You mean to tell me he has two diamonds in this leg and his 4% check was only $1500!" No wonder the tools scam is so big because to really get financially free just from Amway you have to have a huge business!

What do you think?

-- Sidney.

Here is some material that I prepared on the cultish aspect of Amway based on books that you refer to (Samways) illustrating the points made therein.

************************************************************************

My favourite Amway contradiction in terms - that spoken at the end of a so-called ‘Family Reunion’ by a Diamond wife: “Remember, we will love you unconditionally when you are Diamond”!

The replies you have received from Amway diehards demonstrates that they have forgotten the maxim given in the Bible “What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world but lose his own soul”.

It is true what they say in Amway you do not make money out of the people below you for the facts are that if you are making money out of them then they must be rolling it in too, perhaps even more so. On the other hand the facts also are that most people make very little or even end up losing. Within Amway proper it is not a zero sum game. The money is siphoned away from ‘traditional businesses’ and the taxpayer. I am not talking about the Amway Motivational Organisations (AMOs) here.

The techniques the AMOs use have their origin in those developed and applied to US POWs in the Korean war. A large amount of research was undertaken into how and why they worked. In time this knowledge was brought into academic and clinical research which was aimed at developing therapeutic psychological techniques to help people.

These techniques were intended for use by professional therapists who are accountable to their profession’s ethical standards, the laws of the state in which they practice and their patients.

However there were no restrictions place on access to the information and it quickly became available to others not bound by any legal or ethical standards and accountable to no authority. Significant numbers of cults using these new psychological techniques began to emerge in the US in the late 50’s and more so in early 60’s and spread to other countries.

The various AMOs are one manifestation of these cults. They spread these techniques via the systems of tapes and functions. Your description of Ted applying the ‘say nothing’ technique to you is an example.

The AMOs apply these powerful psychological techniques subject to no statutes and accountable to no one, let alone their prospects/recruits. Consider the contrast between the therapist and the Amway sponsor:

(1) In the therapeutic situation the patient who come to the therapist - in Amway it is the potential sponsor who goes out and entices prospects/recruits in;

(2) It is the patient’s problems which are the raison d`etre for the encounter - in Amway it is the sponsor’s ‘dream’; and

(3) The therapist must fully inform the patient of the process that is to be applied and obtain the consent of the patient to become a subject - in Amway people are manipulated into participating without informed consent.

Indeed a heap of Amway garbage is directed at taking away the prospect’s awareness that he/she even has the ability to make an independent judgement. Much of their processing is designed to make you dependent on the judgement of your ‘upline’. For instance after the first meeting we (my wife and I) went to (with my brother-in-law who has since dropped out damn him) the Diamond said “If you have any questions ask the person who brought you here”. This was a subliminal message designed to turn the relationship between you and the sponsor-to-be into one of dependence as between child and parent. Equally astounding was that the meeting was called an ‘Open’ Plan meeting when it was really a staged event with certainly no possibility of the speakers taking questions from the floor!

Similarly one of the tapes we regularly tapped into ended with these words spoken very reverently by an Emerald wife: “And a Diamond couple put me straight on this one at the Emerald and Diamond lunch at the Family Reunion when I asked “what is the relationship between an upline and a downline? Is it friends’? They said ‘No, it is the relationship between parents and children’”. She did not recognise that she contradicted the crap she had said at the start of the tape: “We promise them they can make a lot of money. We do not promise them that we are going to be their friend.. We don’t promise them that we will be their emotional and marriage counsellor. We promise them that we are going to help them make some money.”

That was almost a big a contradiction as that referred to at the opening.

The last difference I will refer to is that while the professional bodies are expected to have in place and be responsible for the negative consequences of their applications of these techniques (e.g. professional liability insurance) the AMO leaders are not the slightest bit interested in any negative consequences. The absolve themselves of any responsibility in this way by blaming the victim for what went wrong!

In this they are the same as other cults and totally dissimilar from licensed professionals. Even in a business sense AMOs resemble cults more than businesses. Our AMO liked to compare sponsoring to a traditional business opening more outlets or a franchise operation like McDonalds selling more franchises.

However when a traditional business opens another outlet it must bear the cost if it does not work out. This is a powerful incentive to exercise caution in opening new outlets in contrast to the scatter gun approach of the AMOs. Similarly McDonalds thoroughly vets potential sites and requires possible licensees to have a demonstrated track record of being successful in business on their own account. This is in stark contrast with the AMO approach of applying the process enough times to eventually come up with six directs and so go Diamond. They never bother to look into what to do with those who are not suitable apart from saying if you quit then you are a loser.

The last comment I would make is to do with the ‘dream’. The book “Combatting Cult Mind Control” by Steve Hassan refers to the three steps to gaining mind control. On page 67 he refers to the first as described in a book titled Coercive Persuasion by Edgar Schein (who had studied the brain washing referred to above): “His frames of reference for understanding himself and his surroundings must be challenged and broken down. Upsetting his view of reality disarms his natural defences against concepts that challenge his reality.” In other words pull the rug out from under their feet then offer them your way as a way back up.

I will give three examples of how AMOs do this and most people will recognise them or something similar.

(1) The so called open plans we went to all started off by presenting a very pessimistic view of the future - and then present a way of avoiding catastrophe, later revealed to be Amway

(2) Most husbands like to feel that they love their wives. That frame of reference was attacked at the aforementioned so called ‘Family Reunion’ when, near the close of the meeting, a Diamond husband came to the front of the stage and said that he wanted to speak to the men and then said “Men, if you love your wife then you will do this”. Another Diamond husband on a tape referred to saying to a man who was declining “What’s the matter, don’t you love your wife”. This below the belt guilt tactic relies on the man’s misplaced feelings as to what it is necessary to do to make one’s wife feel loved (John Gray’s books elaborate e.g. ‘Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus’ etc).

(3) Lastly again from the tape by the Emerald wife already referred to: Most people can spend their whole lives ignoring the facts and that is why they can say stupid things like “I am comfortable”. They need to know the bad news. So how do you go about dealing with something like this. You say “Well tell me, John, if time and money were no object tell me where you would like to be tomorrow and all of next week”. When he replies “the Riviera” or similar here is your chance to be honest. You say “Well John, since you are so comfortable lets get out the telephone book and ring the travel agent right now. --- What you can’t. What does that tell you - it tells you that you are not as comfortable as you thought you were.” She then says: And we need to be tough like that with our prospects and distributors for their own good.

In other words it is the AMOs that are the dream stealers - they operate from the very beginning by stealing a prospect’s individual dream and then supplanting their version in its stead

Colossians 2:8 say “See to it that no one makes a captive of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human philosophy, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ”. If Paul was not speaking about the human potential movement implicit in the AMO philosophy and our baser desires for material well being than what was he talking about?

As I said above the Bible also states “What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world but lose his own soul”. For surely to become so blinded by one’s own dream to feel that satisfying it justifies the application of mind control tactics is to lose your soul even if you do gain the whole world.

Hi Sidney,

Although I only read about one third of the comments posted about your page, I started to notice a pattern. Many supporters of Amway are easily angered and some are bigots. There was more then one reference to "blood-sucking Jews." That is no way for them to gain support for their cause. One person who spoke this way was a diamond! I have decided not to join Amway after reading the information I found on many sites. Even if I had not read any of this information, and had skipped right to the responses, I would not have joined due to the these posters I have spoken of. They have truly opened my eyes to the "real" Amway.

Nice home page. Where did you get your information, again? Do you always use just part of the quotes or are you only willing to tell the parts of the story that supports your failure? In any rate, drop me some of your information, no matter how tainted it may be. Thanks

I just knew that there was something shady about that AMWAY stuff. I'm a college student who has been "briefed" on the incentives to joining AMWAY since September. Something was telling me that this was too good to be true, but I wasn't listening. It wasn't until the most ironic of occurances happened today, while I was on the internet looking for information about cults for a family member of mine who may be involved in one, that I found that I was diving head first into one myself!!!!! Thanks to you and the contributors to your site, I feel that I can now tell the "upline" distributors no, and not feel bad about it. I wish I could tell the people I know who are involved in this about it, but they are like zombies when it comes to AMWAY. Thank you for the informaiton.

Thanks for your interesting web page on Amway. My friends have all just joined and they were asking me why I won't. I have a lot of ammo now! By the way, do you ever foresee a dramatic decline in Amway distributors or even a collapse of the Amway empire?

Amway seems to be the answer to owning your own business. If it is not, then what else is there. The plan works if one works it. At least if money is lost, it is lost gradually. A conventional business could cause you to loose everthing including your current job, home, and belongings. If Amway is not the answer, then what kind of low risk business is there that would eventually allow one to become financially independent?

I didn't get to everything so this might be a dumb question but were you ever involved in Amway? I am recently in and have had some questions like the ten customer rule, spending lots of money, and not being able to tell anyone it's Amway. I have read comments and decided to work my but off, keep my money in my pocket, and not tell anyone it's Amway for the simple reason of the reputation of "soap selling". Wish me luck and I'll update you in 6m.

Sidney,

Thanks so much for all of your hard work. This weekend I was "shown the business" for the second time. I think the one thing that stands out most after hearing the presentation and then reading the responses to your page, is that there is no denying that you must work hard to be successful as an Amway dealer. But that directly contradicts what I was told by a distributor, just yesterday. He said that if I put in about 10-15 hours per week I could be "financially independant" within 2-5 years. That doesn't sound like very hard work. What are the facts?

My name is L. I appreciate that someone has put up information on the net of this nature. I admire the fact that someone is willing to "look out for others" so to speak. I have analaized this business for the past five years, and believe me there have been many changes in that time. One point that I would like to point out is that some of the information is outdated, and can no longer be construed as useful or true. I'm not saying that to be cynical or to bash you, it's just something that I noticed. In the 5 years that i've been shown this business numerous times, by numerous people I have found some points that I agree with and some that I dissagree with. The plan will work. Not by lying, not by cheating, but it will work if you take away all the hype that some people include. If you analyze this business from an impartial standpoint, it is the optimal business. It is not for everyone, but it is for everyone that has a brain, and will not "crack" under pressure. Just thought that I would send you my opinion. Once again thank you for your time and effort placed into creating this page.

[I replied to this person and asked him which information, specifically, has changed and is no longer “useful or true.” I got no response.]

I have had personal experiences with Amway and am sad to say that I have lost one of my best friends to Amway. I merely disagreed with the entire Amway concept; I did not belittle him or mock the program. I simply do not agree that this is the way to become successful. I have read your entire page (and that of the Amway organization to be fair) including the pages of commentary and find the organization only reflects the dreams and resulting success of several lucky people who got in during the formative years of the "corporation" (as with any company). These individuals simply employ an excellent method of marketing their business to potential Amway participants and effectively convince them that Amway is the solution to their monetary problems. I find it strange that none of the responses reflect the sort of success that the organization promises, only the continued hours of labor and travel and herd-like mentality seen at the "rallies" and meetings. The people involved sometimes seem to be desperate and a little sad, and their initiation into the program always seems to come at a period following a low point in their lives. Amway will recruit indiscriminately and when the intelligent people figure out that it is Amway, they get out quickly leaving those who are slightly vulnerable to be pounced upon by the Amway clones.

Sidney, I really liked your page and found it to be a fair assessment of a program to which I have recently become much too familiar.

I recently loss my relationship to my father because of AMWAY. I do hope to regain it, but you can tell that the grip is tightening around his mind.

After our encounter with the "AMWAY BEAST" I decided to look on the internet for pages about AMWAY and found your's (and others). In all of my reading I have not seen reference to the argument that was presented to me by my father and thought that you might want to post it.

BUY FROM MY STORE

After numerous attempts to get me to become an AMWAY dealer (with no success) it finally came to a frank discussion between the two of us. It was one night when he came into town and was spending the night with us.

Me- "Dad, I'm sorry but I just don't want to 'DO AMWAY'. This AMWAY thing has done nothing but divide our families since it started. Can't we just drop the subject."

Dad- "OK, I won't mention it again"

Small talk and a few minutes later.

Dad - "Now tell me again what your problem is with AMWAY."

Me - "I just don't want to partisipate. Can't we just be a normal family without AMWAY in the WAY?"

Dad - "Well now let me tell you how I feel. If you had a store, you would want, and expect, me to come to your store and buy the things you needed if I sold them, wouldn't you. I just don't understand why you wouldn't help me if you could."

And with that he started crying, got up and started for his room. He turned about half way down the hall and said, "And I won't be coming back here again, I'll find a hotel from now on!"

In a couple of minutes he came out of his room, clothes in hand, demanded for me to unlock the gate.

My last words were, "This is just GREAT, AMWAY can break up our family."

His last words, "AND you won't even buy a roll of toilet paper from me."

Since then I have found out alot more about his AMWAY dealings. He has lost ALL his long time friends because they wouldn't be recruited or WON'T BUY FROM HIS STORE. It seems that the idea that he has a store has been driven into him. If anyone he knows, family or friend, won't buy from his store they just don't care about him and are to be written off. End of relationship.

As I surf the internet to read about the evils of AMWAY "The Beast", I am amused see the cultish following of this group. I was equally amused at one particular writing where the writer ask what the facination was with DIAMONDS and RV's (Winnebago types). Shortly after my father surcumed to "The Business" he bought a 24 foot (or so) RV that he was going to use for trips to meetings and recruiting trips. You know that all the trips are "TAX DEDUCTABLE". Soon after he traded UP to a full size BUS. Recently he sold it for a total loss of approximalty $30,000!!!!!

Several months before this recent break up he convinced his wife to quite here job and do "The Business" and get into real estate. Now she wants her job back and now he is selling anything he can to get extra money to pay bills. He even sold a Christmas present I gave to him back to me for extra cash.

That's my story, I hope that someone somewhere will listen and learn what a destructive force AMWAY is.

NO, I WILL NOT BUY FROM YOUR STORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Appreciate your website information on this outfit. I've heard rumors for a number of years but never got the real lowdown until I came across your web page.

Holy Cow!! I just signed up as an Amway distributor. I suspected for a time that all multi-level groups made more money from their rah-rah stuff than from the product. I used to subscribe to Consumers Reports--you're right--Amway products do poorly in their ratings. Keep up the good work :-)

I just want to know where have you been before I become a member of Amway and how come I did not learn about all of this? Your information about Amway should be known to everybody. I thank you personaly for all information I read so far and thanks to God that I only spent $300. In the beging me and my wife (like other fools)thought we could make some mega $$$...now we know the truth. Thanks a lot ! Please keep informing the public about Amway...and I am going to tell all my friends what I just learn.

I just read that Amway signed a deal with Rubbermaid to market RM products.

I e-mailed Rubbermaid (webmaster@rubbermaid.com) to inform them I would no longer purchase products made by Rubbermaid and its subsidiary, Little Tikes.

Would be interesting to see if other people have also lost enthusiasm for Rubbermaid.

Dream Builders,

It's 10pm, do you know where your upline diamond is? Sitting in front of his computer like you? Showing the plan like you should be doing right now? OR...enjoying the fruits of YOUR labor, not to mention the dollars skimmed off of every one of YOUR tape/book purchases.

Most of you criticize Sidney for this website. Look, 90% of the negative feedback in here is by ex- distributors, not by Sidney. So please back away from any thoughts of insulting him...he's just one of thousands that share these concerns and the guy who provides this forum for open discussion on both the pros and cons of the business.

Many of you ask Sidney, "Well, if Amway is so bad, what plan do you have to offer for financial freedom." (Universally applied comeback) Well, you don't have to be a chef to know that a meal sucks. You don't have to be Vince Lombardi to know that the Jets suck. And you don't have to be a CFP or CPA to know that Amway sucks.

It's sad to read what distributors post. Most of it hate-filled. But they all use the same comebacks...no matter what part of the country or world they come from. All of it instilled in the Ambot factory. And the scary part is, is that I used to spew the same diatribe when I was a distributor.

Many of you talk about reaching a point of freedom. My freedom was won when I quit (oh no! I used the "Q" word), and I was able to read the books of my choice, not one off some stupid list -- I could listen to the radio or talk to my wife in the car, not always have a tape in -- I could enjoy my time with my kids in the evening before they're off to bed, not out spreading this virus -- I could plan my own financial future, not have it written out for me in a Denny's restaurant by someone who's only concern is the color of his next Ferrari.

Some advice for you. For those new in the business or those thinking about getting in, ask your sponsor (and his sponsor) to see their last tax return. I know, I know...they'll say, "It's none of your business" or "My income has no barring on your future income" or "I'm just getting started, but in 2-5 years my income will be in six figures" or some other way to skirt the issue. Just ask for their Schedule C...it only shows income & expense from their Amway business...nothing else. It will reveal one of two things. Either they aren't making what they claim to be making, or you will see how much they make off of tool/ticket sales versus Performance Bonus. If I were to start a lifelong partnership involving millions of dollars, the LEAST I would ask for would be a Schedule C (along with a signed letter stating its authenticity). It's your right no matter what they say.

And in a year or so after you're fed up with the deceit and greed of the business, don't listen to your former upline when they tell you you're a quitter or a loser, don't be discouraged that your crossline and downline friends that you currently run together with never return your phone calls or do so with a condescending tone, and don't believe that you will never achieve your dreams and goals. But instead, rejoice that you left before the Amway business robbed you of any remaining dignity, money or ambition. Amway isn't the only game in town...just the worst game in town.

For those of you that think that Sidney is stealing people's dreams by setting up this web site:

1) It shows how insecure you are with a business that you expect to provide your financial freedom.

2) It confirms for many of us that there is some truth to the deceitful practices exhibited by you and other distributors.

3) That this website works. Hopefully prospective and current distributors will have all the facts at their disposal before jumping in to Amway.

To quote Jack Nicholson, "You can't handle the truth!"

*** Welcome to the NEW AMWAY *** "Building a bridge to the next millenium"

Amway of the 1960's and 1970's - A business of retailing soap & other household products through door-door sales, swap meets and catalog distribution.

Amway of the 1990's and beyond - A business of selling tapes, books, videos and seminar tickets to distributors using pressure tactics and promising future wealth from using them.

"Catch the vision...go diamond or go bust!"

Dear Sidney,

It sounds like that cold Colorado air may be getting to you.

[I don’t and never have lived in Colorado.]

Lets review a few facts.

The absolute minimum requirement to become an Amway distributor is $150. No other purchases are required, everything else is OPTIONAL. Let's treat people like adults and take responsibility for our own decisions instead of trying to blame someone else when we aren't successful.

Last year Amway grossed over 6.8 Billion dollars and is the 15th fastest growing privately held company with revenues over $1 Billion in the world. There must be a bunch of idiots out there.

If so few people are successful, why are there greater and greater numbers of qualifiers in Amways monthly newsletter every year.

I could go on and on, but so far everything I've learned about Amway has been true. In any industry with millions of distributor (i.e. real estate, insurance, etc) you are going to have some that try and abuse the system but you can't judge an entire business or industry on a few, if you are make a true analysis.

This is the way more and more goods and services are going to be distributed in the future, if you don't believe me ask Paul Pilzer his opinion. His education and success level should be good enough for you. The entire direct selling industry is growing rapidly and Amway is the bigggest, best and most successfull out there. This is simply the best business opportunity available today, period. Why don't you put this information on the top of your page in big bold letters. Let's see if it even makes it into your response file.

People do things for reasons. Everybody has a motivation. People start an Amway business because they have things out of life that they would like to do or have. What is your motivation Sidney Schwartz. I would be interested in know the untold story behind Sidney Schwartz.

I am one of your freindly little soap dealers, except guess what? I don't sell it. That's right. No one forces me to buy or sell anything. It is not a get rich quick scheme...like many others are. My husband and I don't spend any money on network things and guess what..WE ARE MAKING A PROFIT!!! And we don't sell it.. if you don't understand that, then you don't understand Amway. I'm not saying every Amway distributor is perfect, or even trustworthy. However a few bad seeds shouldn't make the rest of us 2 million honest and trustworthy distributors look bad. And as for the lawsuit business, 8 lawsuits in how many years doesn't seem bad comparitively, our country is lawsuit happy. If you don't believe that, then I guess you didn't hear about the woman who sued McDonald's for their coffee being to hot and one. Please!!!!! Get a clue..then we'll talk!

Dear sir,

Thanks for a great web site. I've had a negative view of Amway ever since high school, when one of my classmate's parents got into it gung-ho. I remember, as a kid of 15, (I'm 35 now) going to their house, with my parents, as they were invited to a "get together." It seemed like pie in the sky talk then, and it still does.

The point is that my brother in law has targeted me as a prime candidate for this business. It's getting to the point that I needed some clear ammunition just to defend my position. They just won't take no for an answer. At any rate, with many years of business experience, and an MBA, I knew that there would be some clear information regarding this scam on the internet, and I wasn't disappointed. That I'll ever get this guy to see reason is questionable, he's as gone as you could imagine, but at least I now have the peace of mind that the facts were out there, and I now longer have to dance around my business basics objections for fear of harming the only family my wife has within the state. I can just show him the binder I've built, courtesy of your web site, entitled, " Amway; Just the Facts."

One final question though. Have you found, in your research, that the Amway phenomenon, is running rampant through the U.S. military? This guy is in the Airforce, and I'm pretty sure his sponsor was as well. I also remember a comical moment (at least it was to me) during the last presidential debate, when Clinton was talking to a Navy guy, and the guy said he was in the Navy, and had his own business. Clinton asked what business he had, and the guy said Amway. I'm surprised Clinton was able to hold back a grin, or a smirk. Anyway, I was wondering if you had a feel for that aspect of Amway?

Again, thanks for a very informative, and well developed web site. You made my day.

Sidney, As a new user of the internet and an Amway distributor I was curious to see what was posted. I was very surprised. I regret that there seems to be a lot of people who have negative experiences with Amway. To anyone reading this comment, if you are having negatives please see your upline about a refund the first 30 days on the kit, and products can be refunded at any time. I know many people who use the products outside the business and swear by them. I use them and like them, but then I am not Consumer Reports. Although I did follow their advice about a couple of things cars and a cd player and lived to regret the purchase. Maybe its best if they are not your only comparative source.

Concerning the tools and functions, yes they cost money. My own experience has been good. Being of a limited financial resources, I was leary of spending money on these items. When I expressed this concern to upline. This was the response, borrow the books from the library, or I can lend you my personal copy. In one case I was told I just saw that book on the discount counter of a large bookstore chain in the area. This is from a very large Emerald in the business. Do they make money maybe so, I know the equipment to produce the items is expensive as is the other infrastructure (800 numbers), employees etc. perhaps this cost offset the other expenses.

I appreciate you having both sides on your comments. That does show a fair minded person. So to all those who are checking out Amway and to Amway's detractors, I like to say this: Amway is like all things some good and some bad. As a liberal I have a hard time with some of the conservative statements made by the majority of the people, however rich people tend to be more conservative than poor ones. I have also heard liberal ones from big distributors. I know for a fact the liberals were asked to rebut but declined. But no matter what you think and believe it is your choice to do what you want. If you are approched be happy, someone thinks you have the potential to suceed. If you are looking for an opportunity, listen with an open mind then evaluate. Who is the person inviting you. Do you trust them? If you asked questions do they honestly answer you? John Sestina is in the Whos Who of financial planners and was a multimillionaire before joining Amway. He joined because he as never seen a better business than this one. He is VERY Successful both inside and outside of Amway. I do not think this man would risk his professional reputation on a dishonest scam. As a matter of fact, many of the companies working with Amway would not risk their market image for a bad business. These companies are MCI, Keebler, Naturalizer, Firestone just to name a few. As to the future of Network Marketing, this is the way of the future. People are always looking for alternate buying patterns than traditional malls, QVC, Internet, Shoppers Clubs all have a great deal incommon with Amway. They all use their "membership" to sell and promote, except with Amway the profits are shared along the way, with the others a corporation makes the real money. I haven't seen a company yet offer its employees the majority of its profits. Thank you for bein fair and letting me air my comments.

Poor Sidney,

YOU are such a CRY BABY! You're mentality is surely a LOOSER! Anybody who believes in you has a BROKE MENTALITY LIKE YOU TOO! You ARE definitely a FAILED DISTRIBUTOR. It's a pity that you have to SHOUT IT TO THE WHOLE WORLD. Your intention of having this page is to let eveybody knows that YOU ARE A SURE LOOSER!!! WELL, YOU DESERVE IT. WHO'S LAUGHING AT YOU NOW!........ME AND THE REST OF THE PEOPLE WHO WILL SUCCEED IN THIS BUSINESS......and you will still probably here creating your own SORRY PAGE.

I recently read in the business section of January's Amagram the following:

"Rule 104(b) and 105(d), the Ten Customer Rule, has been modified to recognize the fact that substantial retailing of products can occur by having sales to less than 10 customers. The new rule requires either retail sales to at least 10 different customers, or at least 50 PV of retail sales to any number of retail customers. To further emphasize the purpose and importance of retail selling in the Amway Sales and Marketing Plan, this rule has been renamed the "Retail Sales Rule.""

Figured I'd ship this your way. It also says that the full text of the new rules is available from the Business Conduct and Rules Department.

Also, I wanted to let you know that I enjoy checking out your web-site every so often. I've been in Amway less than a year now, and although I plan to continue (the in-laws are upline) as far as 'personal use' goes, I like knowing all that *really* goes on.

Im an Amway distributor, but did not realize there was so much money being made on tool sales. This definitely is a great concern to me. However, the tapes & books that are offered on the tool lists have been a tremendous asset to me. My marriage is MUCH better, and I am a better person than I was before I got involved in this business.

I believe that most people who do not succeed in Amway do not want to admit that the fault rests squarely on their shoulders. This business is like ANY other. There are those who will try to take your money at any cost. The key, in my opinion, is to treat it just like any other businness venture. There are risks, rewards, time & money committments, and thiefs.

Please, if you are thinking of getting involved in Amway, treat it like any other business. And, most importantly, use your common sense.

How about "Network 21" headed by Jim Dornan out of California. Big pins have gone on record in "open meetings" as saying, quote Stan Evans: "You can't make money selling Amway products. You make it selling books, tapes and functions."

Keep up the good work.

I was a distributor in Canada back in 1994. Glad I got out of that fiasco. I almost lost all my reputation.

Any new developments in the world of Amway? Has the Hanrahan class action over?

First of all it is strange to me that someone would spend all their time bashing a company. Don't you have anything else to do with your time?

About eighteen years ago, my parents met a couple through my sisters elementary school soccer team. My sister and the other couple's daughter became friends. Thusly my parents soon befriended the girls parents. Both moms were homemakers and both dads had secure jobs; but Joe (name changed to protect his privacy) told my dad about this business that a local college kid informed him about. It was Amway. As Joe told my dad about this business he and my father became really excited. They both thought they were going to make lots of money and never work another day. To make a long story short my mother heard the name AMWAY and told my father there was no way she would have anything to do with that crazy door to door soap selling scam. My father went on working his normal job. Joe went on with his normal job but did Amway on the side.

TODAY:

Today my father has a great job. We are a happy family and he makes a very comfortable living at age 50. JOE IS NOW A MILLIONARE. Not only is Joe a millionare, his house is paid off, his children did not have to worry about money in college, he spends most of his time speaking at Amway rallies in places like Hawaii and the Virgin Islands. Tough Life. I know money doesn't make happiness but it sure helps. I wouldn't mind having a Hummer parked out in front of my dorm at college.

I am NOT endorsing Amway in any way but I sure wouldn't bash it. People obviously get out of it what they put into it. Even though JOE became sucessful in Amway I probably will not sign up. It isn't what I am interested in. It's not a get rich quick scam. If you want to get rich, go back to college and add to your education. The more education you have, the less money will seem important to you.

I have recently been added to the list of persons who are now HERassED by an AMWAY distributor and after doing all the research which he asked me to do, I still do not want anything to do with it.

Without being blunt and just saying "no" or throwing every article I've found at him, what is the best way to get him to just go away!

Very much thanks goes out to you and all the research that you have done and to all the persons that have contributed to your cause. Excellent content of your page. Keep up the good work.

P.S. You might think about making your own "anti"-motivational tape and selling it thru the distributors.....

Isn't it amazing it takes educated American's so long to catch on to such a scam. I must admit I am most amazed at myself for believing the "We love you guys and please order some products this week" crock. My husband and I were quite impressed by none other than our family doctor who represented the Amway scam in such a positive way that we just couldn't resist. After two years of financially breaking our own bank and seeing people run in the opposite direction when they saw us coming, we finally came to our senses. Little did we know that when we turned our backs on this wonderful chance of a lifetime, that we were also going to loose the devoted friends that we had acquired while beating our brains out to "HAVE A DREAM". Your site is quite imformative and I congratulate you on having the guts to share your ideas. I think each of us really know the truth but are afraid to accept it when we are hearing all the positive "You can do it, just go for your dreams". Isn't that what we really all want to hear in our search for success. I guess my parents were right when I was eighteen and they said that we all have to grow up sometime. I just wish I had realized it when we missed something that was important to one of our three children so that we could show "THE PLAN" or attend the local pep rally. Thanks once again for reinforcing my decision to not pay our yearly dues.

YOU MUST HAVE FAILED AT BUILDING THE AMWAY BUSINESS, SO YOU HAD TO RESORT TO SOMETHING YOUR GOOD AT -- MISINFORMING PEOPLE! WITH A TRAIT LIKE THAT NO ONE CAN SUCCEED AT DEALING WITH PEOPLE. STICK TO COMPUTERS.

YOU MUST NOT REALLY BE JEWISH........OR EXTREMELY JEALOUS OF THE FACT THAT DUTCHMEN BEAT YOU TO THE PUNCH.

(sorry to yell) amway, as a business oppurtunity, is for everyone with the same qualifications as any other conv. business owner with one possible exception; you don't get to claim you did it all by yourself, you get to be excited about the result of work you've done with the people you've helped make money, and the wiseguys that ridicule us, they reveal what character we're starting out with. the tapes books and functions(those nasty investments we get to fund out of our own pockets with no guarantees) help us to improve our belief that we can be BIG in this business. the price of soap is a losers' excuse for failing or not trying. no other bus. ever gave us a dime back for our purchases, BUT, they gave THEIR wives and kids furs, diamonds, and toys. they gave them EDUCATION at top schools where they learn THEY are the elite and how THEY could redistribute ALL the wealth in the country and reclaim it by the end of the year. AMWAY (and it's really not even amway doing this dummy!) educates all interested in being educated, that they too can have a bigger piece of the pie than their boss is willing to pay them, for some of the things in life that THEY want! NO JOB ANYWHERE is going to do that, and no conventional business is going to accomplish what this business will acccomplish(the work put in being equal) for people. and lastly, any body who has quit this business and blamed amway, should go back further and blame his(her) mother for their problems too. obviously people are more moved to blame amway;when they wouldn't blame the college they quit, or a course they quit, or a job, or even their marriage.there is nothing wrong with the institutions people quit, just the businesses people quit. for people like you to mount negative campaigns such as this, i hope tells people looking at them, and the # of hits you're getting, there must be something more to this business that i haven't seen to be growing the way it is IN SPITE of all this negativity.

SO LONG DOT PERSON. YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK WITH AN AMWAY DISTRIBUTOR AND FIND OUT ABOUT A DISEASE YOU SEEM TO BE SUFFERING FROM. IT'S CALLED H.U.B.!

Hi Sid,

I have a brother that is in Amway. He tried to get me involved but I decided not to because of how sneaky these people are. My own brother, couldn't come right out and tell me it was Amway. My own brother wouldn't let me review the material any longer than the stupid time limit Amway tells them to give it out for. My own brother put me down saying I wouldn't amount to anything because I was not willing to work hard.

Well needless to say I am HAPPY I never did this Amway stuff. What a thing to do to your own relative. What he did is what I have heard numerous other people tell me happened to them with family members.

I hear him and his wife talk about the "DREAM." Well in my opion a dream is something that shouldn't hurt a family. But when you think about it, a dream is soemthing that happens when your sleeping or not paying attention. Thus the Amway dream is only happening to the top person. He is getting you to NOT pay attention to what is really happening so HE can make money.

Amway may have been good in the 70's and 80's. Now I have SAM's club, discount stores, and much more. I can surely pickup a product cheaper than any Amway product and it will be better.

I truely wish people would open their eyes. If you want to make money, do it in a way that some top ranking goon doesn't keep getting richer but you do.

I seel new computers that I build. Yes I need parts, but I can buy them from wherever I want. I am making the money and I don't have to pass it along to anyone. I don't have to keep a book with a Down Line in it. I sell something of a truely good value and I certainly don't try to get people involved when they come to purchase.

PEOPLE WAKE UP!!!

When can we get rid of this Amway crap for good? Wipe it off the face of the earth PLEASE!!!!!!!!

The world of Amway is no world to be in.

Thankfully, I never gobbled all the nonsense up. My upline was so gullible (minus the person that brought me in) that they bought all the 'tools' and we just borrowed them.

I only bought three so I cannot complain. But I have over a hundred of them now....borrowed. Oh well, they make for good re-taping purposes.

What an experience it was. It lasted four months and I just decided this wasn't something I wanted to be part of. I feel a bit stupid because I took it from a business standpoint but soon figured it all out.

I agree with your every effort. Amway is a ripoff scam run by lying theives. Only the lowest scum of the earth will abuse, control and manipulate other people like Amway upline do. May God bless you for your fine efforts.

Hello:

I have been talking with an AMWAY distrbutor about joining his crusade. However, I am reluctant and skeptical although confident in my own abilities (I've been in sales sucessfully for 12 years). The potential of independence interests me.

I have found your site to be very enlightening and will possibly save me a great amount of effort and heartache. The question I have though, is why would you go to the expense and trouble of creating and maintaining such a site to convey a negative message and crusade against AMWAY. Even if true (and I tend to accept most as true) why make the effort. Surely you are getting something for your effort. What is it?

hello all, I've been coming back to this web site for close to a year now and this is my first and probably only response. I was an Amway rep. about 15 yrs. ago and again about 3 yrs. ago, the second time a close friend joined and I did mostly to see how much if any it changed. I am not pro nor con Amway as I see it you get what you are willing to put in. When I was in the first time I was only 22yrs old, and while I didn't think it was a get rich scheme I thought I could make some good money in it, more than my day job. I had no idea how much effort it would take to build this business to direct level. I congradulate all who did, I believe most of you did it honestly because I did attend the functions the first time and my impression was that most of the people high or low in the buisness were good people. I just was not willing to do everything it takes to be successful in the amway business, and I do not blame amway or my ex- sponscer for it. I am presently in business successfully for myself and I believe some of the principles I learned in amway helped me. They have a saying some will some won't so what, and those of you who do not make it in amway don't blame them, just move on and succeed at something else. Good luck all and may God bless you.

Thanks sidney, for putting up this page. my girlfriend is involved with amway, and has been for about a year & 1/2 (I met her 5 months ago). i have been confused about her huge commitment level and the amount of time and money she spends on this seemingly profitless (if not costly) "business" she and two other of her family members are involved in. I've also purchased a few products from them, and have not been impressed, with the quality...let alone the price. The only problem is it's pretty clear to me that if I state my opinion at this point, that it may be the end of the relationship. My assumption is that along with the "dream building" (like what's with all those cut-outs of $250,000 sports cars on the fridge???...when %0.5 of amway folks make as much as I do...do they all do that fridge thing??) also comes the warning of those who would "try to rob you of your destiny"....or something.... correct me if I'm wrong....but.. ...I think I'm in trouble.....she may be in worse trouble.

Anyway...thanks again for the sight and the links to other pages, it's refreshing to find such a well-researched and objective page, with all the hooplah on the web these days.

Good Day:

I sure hope that Satan is rewarding you to the fullest for doing his work so well.

You sure are doing a great job of killing people's dreams, Amway like any other business is only a vehicle to get you where you want to go and if you don't want to do the work (helping others reach their dreams and goals) you won't get nowhere.

You are probably an ex-amway distributor who got in sat on his ass and expected to get rich and now you're out for revenge because nothing was handed to you on a silver platter.

I suggest you get a life and start studying your Christian Bible (not Satan's)

Have a good day, God Bless and forgive you

Dear Sir,

I greatly apreciated your web site. You are doing a great service to the many readers who are able to become informed before making a great mistake.

Unfortunately, before reading your site, I was all too aware of Amway. My sister and brother-in-law are heavily involved. They have a 3 year old son and another on the way any day now. My wife and I have fended off overtures. We recently went to a Dream Nite with them under the pretext that they had two extra tickets. I couldn't believe the stuff that went on. It was all I could do not to walk out in the middle of the thing.

** The reason I'm writing is that I'm very concerned about my sister. I do not want to destroy our relationship. I am positive that any attempt to present the evidence in your pages to them will result in a major fight. My brother-in-law is a definative hook-line-and-sinker case.

** Do you have any suggestions on how to handle this situation which must be extremely common? I did not find any reference in your site. If you know of one, it would be greatly appreciated.

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