### Amway: The Untold Story

## Your Comments, Part 46

(10/97)

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Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.

This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.

[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]

`Hello, again.`

I have two points for you:

1) Last week, a message was sent down via Amvox from our Diamond attempting to discredit any information to be found on the Internet. He claimed that since anyone could could put a site for free, to treat the information with as much worth. (By his standard, not much worth at all). He continued by saying that if you want the real story, talk to the people who are building the business. It seems to me that his whole message was simply trying to put down the media of the information, rather than the information itself. He never once tried to debate to refute any information during his Amvox message, but told everyone not to believe what they read. I'll be Amvox-ing him soon, so I'll let you know if he says anything about that.

2) Have you heard about the APR service? Short fort Automatic Product Repleshiment, it is a new system where the distributor fills out an order form once, gives the form to the upline direct, and then the product comes "automatically." What si glossed-over is the fact that the service is NOT offered by the Amway corp, but rather by a group of Diamonds who give control over to the local directs. In other words, the direct is placing your monthly order for you (a little hand-holding, maybe?). Two ways of looking at this: good) You don't have to remember what to order that month, bad) Control and month-to-month flexibility is taken away as you have to call your direct to change what is coming that month. The service also makes sure you DO your 100 PV, so you get your PV check AND the direct makes sure they have 7500 PV running through their group to qualify. Oh, and also, when it fails: I had been on the service and had 98 PV worth of products every month. My order week was the 3rd week of the month and the order day was Thursday. On the day I was supposed to receive my stuff, nothing came. And nothing came for the next 4 days. I called my direct and they said something went wrong with my credit card, but did not say what (over the limit? bad card? wrong digits?). They said the products would be ordered next week, which just happened to fall on the 1st of the next month. That's right-- my order actually went on the the next month, effectively slicing off 98 PV for the month for me, my sponsor, and his sponsor, etc.. Needless to say, I needed that for the next bonus level, and therefore quit the APR service. I have since found that it is much easier for me (personally) to just order what I need on my own.

In your opinion, and in the opinion of others, is this "the wave of the future"-- automatic product delivery or just another way you lose control of your business to your direct? Any way of creating a sub-section about this topic, as not every Amway group has it yet?

As always, thanks for the info on your site!

I read through your web site because someone told me that it was pretty funny. And they were right. It was hilarious. I have a suggestion for you though. Try condensing it down a little into a "Greatest Hits" selection of comments. Other than that, real funny.

Sidney,

I'm enjoying your web page. I'm an active distributor, and I have a question about your statement, "Amway has moved to limit their choice of legal remedies and to strip them of their First Amendment rights concerning any disputes they may have with Amway Corp. or their upline." on you page called "ITC and BSM Arbitration Agreements".

I obviously do not want this to happen. I read the Intent to Continue form on your web page, but I don't understand it well enough to see where Amway is restricting legal remedies. Unfortunatly, you havn't added your comments to this page yet, so I was wondering if you could please help me understand this before I renew this year.

Well, I am impressed with the amount of info on amway you give,although one sided of course. As in everything there are idiots.I'm sure you know this very well. And yes people have been ripped off or misguided in different teaching systems. And this will continue because people are always out to make a quick buck or to hurt someone in some way.

It is very unfortunate that people do this. I am not one of them. While reading some of you responses I did laugh very hard and enjoyed myself, but also it was disturbing to see how many people can't make decisions for themselves.Mind control and voodoo,lions and tigers and bears oh my. The things I've read are not true in most organizations.And some are so very true.In fact, I'm so glad they're true. Because they are success principles that apply in all business. Quitters will always need to blame someone or something for failing. I'm sure you will hold that statement against me but in all honesty I wish failure on no one and hope they succeed in some other business.The one thing I loved was a person said they'd love to get there two cents in with Bill Britt. If this person really does,and I'm sure he heard Bill say he welcomes all letters and requests, than he should write, call or visit him. But I'm sure he just is not a man or women of there word.That is one thing I do respect you for Mr. Schwartz,that is you disagree with something and you are speaking out about it, even if it is from behind a computer. I wish you all the success in what ever you do and may you have fun doing it...

I find it hard to belive that the proctor and gamble law suite I just read is not touched up just a little by you or someone else. Is this the real untouched filed document?

or have you (someone else)added a little to it?

Sydney,

What is the PURPOSE of your homepage? Do you honestly know? Is this some self proclaimed service? To what end?

I've read the articles and many of the readers comments from those who have failed and those who have succeeded. To some degree your Home Page separates the "wheat from the chaff"; for that I say "thanks". However, you reinforce failures and for that I say "No thanks." Amway provides an opportunity for someone to accept the challenge and responsibility for themselves to succeed or fail. Winners fail, accept the responsibility and move on. Losers fail and blame someone or something else. Your readers comments prove this point dramatically.

So what's your point? I don't understand it. Reinforcing failure makes no sense, yet that is what you do. You have failed to see the winner's perspective, that is clear to me. Your criticisms of Amway are weak - like being flogged with warm lettuce!

I just read the Amagram for October 1997 and the "arbitration form" that Amway wants you to sign. I can't believe that they would not allow distributors to seek their own legal counsel, but only be able to resolve problems through an "Amway selected committee". Is this legal? I have NEVER heard of any group, company, or business having to sign a form like this. Sounds to me like Amway wants to control all negative views and keep them within the committee. This form is a part of renewing for the next year so everyone will eventually have to sign it if they renew their membership. It states that you can only discuss the issue/problem with those who are directly involved. I wonder what affect this will have on those people wanting to post to your web site. I wonder how the people who are totally sold on Amway feel about losing one of their basic AMERICAN rights, freedom of speech. I wonder how many of these forms will be "forged" when the upline renews the subscription for the distributor.

I am shocked at the number of people who initially sign up in Amway, attend a first meeting, etc., just to do a favor for a friend or relative. And then have that information used against you (the size of Amway) to prove that it has to be a good company if it's that big.

I'm sorry I tried to support my "significant other" in his Amway endeavor. I lost a lot of time, effort, and some money. The price I paid for any "tidbit" I learned at a rally was a joke. That same information can be gotten from books or articles but will be presented to you in an objective way.

I came across your home page and following pages about the Amway business and the opportunity. I did find many things interesting but came away with questions of my own about your motivation.

Why would someone who had such a bad experience with this business bother to spend his time, and thus his potential to earn money, on informing the public about you opinions?

Why would someone who obviously, was looking for a business opportunity or other income options, not spend his time and effort doing so in another potentially lucrative opportunity like Excel or other home based businesses?

Why would someone blame a company or individuals who simply have made an opportunity available to earn a secondary or primary income replacement, rather than admit he jsut wasnt willing to look at the opportunity as just that, an opportunity, and work the plan or not work the plan?

If someone has a job, as we know the majority of people do work for someone else, why dont they go to their employer and tell him they are tired of working for wholesale pay so the employer can resell their efforts at retail, and then try to keep that job after you confront the boss with the truth?

I believe everyone has the opportunity to speak his or her mind as long as it is truthful and does not hurt other people. That is, as long as he or she is certain that they have done the "right thing". I am a new Amway distributor and believe that I can either help the other companies that sell stuff become more and more wealthy, or I can be involved in my own business and have the opportunity, not the promise, of making an income from my own efforts. Thats it.

Please reply if you choose to. I am not putting you down for your page,Please dont misinterpret my e-mail. I believe you ahve a right to say what you think, as long as you dont dash the hopes of many of us who are simply looking for an opportunity to get out of the job rut. I asked to be shown this business, no one approached me. I have invested $800000 in a conventional business before and worked my brains out only to see it fail so I believe I will have to invest both time and money to have another opportunity to be my own boss someday and earn a decent living by helping others do the same.

Mr. Schwartz,

Okay...it's my turn to respond. First of all, I want to applaud one thing, and only ONE thing about your site....I applaud that you let both sides come out on your site. At LEAST you don't restrict your postings to your limited views and the views of those who quit on themselves. And I don't mean that to be insulting, just posting it the way I see it.

One thing I want to point out to all the people on your site that read this....INTERNET INFORMATION IS NOT RELIABLE. In fact, this email really isn't RELIABLE information either. When you get information off the net, the sources have to be credible with no chance of tampering or twisting information. If you would be so bold as to post this email in your collection....I'd like anyone reading this mail to take a LIE DETECTOR TEST posted by CNET (a VERY CREDIBLE, REPUTABLE company) at:

http://www.cnet.com/Content/Features/Dlife/Truth/ss01.html

This will prove my point that much of this could be fact...could be fiction so NONE OF WHAT IS ON YOUR SITE SHOULD BE USED TO BASE SOLID FINANCIAL DECISIONS ON NOR SHOULD IT BE USED AS A CONSIDERATION FOR YOURS AND YOUR FAMILY'S FUTURES. Furthermore, if you are bold enough....please post my email address:

I appeal to anyone who takes all this seriously, and I can supply a wealth of federally approved, company endorsed information that supports Amway Organization. Please write to me and I'll answer your questions with information backed up by CREDIBLE companies and sources. I'll be frank, open, and honest about anything I tell you. If people are seriously interested in getting the facts, they'll ask someone who is successful at what they are looking at. Unless your father is a brain surgeon, you wouldn't very well go to him and ask him to remove a tumor from your brain if you have one. You wouldn't ask your best friend to give you a route canal if he is not a dentist. The same principal applies here...if you want knowledge about Amway, you shouldn't be going to some anybody on the internet who has not made it and is not an expert. Ask a SUCCESSFUL or up-and-coming distributor or at LEAST a RECOGNIZED expert. [Recognized by who?] Here are a few places to look as well.....these individuals are RECOGNIZED EXPERTS in Amway [Recognized by who?] and are NOT in Amway themselves.

The book: The Dream That Will Not Die, by Charles Paul Conn, Author and publisher [For an example of Conn's laughably inaccurate, one-sided "reporting" on Amway, see my article on the Canadian Fraud case. Conn is obviously an Amway apologist who writes what he is told to write. And since his books are totally uncritical pro-Amway propaganda, naive distributors buy them by the truckload (and no doubt make Conn truckloads of money.)]

The book: An American Victory, by Dr. Shad Helmstetter, former Psychologist [Hemlstetter is in the business of producing and selling motivational books and tapes. Gee, I wonder if Amway distributors are a major source of income for him?]

Read books by Dr. Robert Schuller, where he quotes Amway's reputation, minister known for his Hour of Power on Sundays. [Long time pal of Rich and Jay's, who are known for contributing large wads of cash to people like Schuller.]

Read Books by Paul Zane Pilzer (ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS MEN OF ALL TIME BEFORE 1997....just JOINED AMWAY MONTHS AGO [Didn't he just say that these "recognized experts" are not in Amway themselves?] BECAUSE IT IS A MORE SECURE OPPORTUNITY THAN ANYTHING HE HAS GOING NOW.) [It's hard to figure why one of the most successful businessmen in the universe would be worrying about security. In any case, Pilzer's educational CD ROMs are sold through Amway, and his books and tapes are sold by the AMO's. He's hardly an unbiased source of information, is he?]

These are Doctor's, publishers, ministers, and businessmen...and whats more...recognized EXPERTS on Amway and its people. [Recognized by who?] These aren't some anybody on the internet who put up positive Amway pages in the hopes you read them, like this site posting negative information. [No, these are all somebodies who have a financial interest in convincing people to become Amway distributors and buy the tapes/books/products that earn them money.]

I thank you in advance for your openess in posting this letter that I'm sure you will, and if you're really interested in people getting the hard FACTS about Amway, make a note on your HOME PAGE to read this email. I'm sure that'll throw a wrench in this site, but of course, that won't happen now, will it? :)

In an interview on the David Letterman show, billionaire Donald Trump was asked that if he lost everything (meaning money) what would he do?

Answer: "I would start my own Amway Business."

Kinda makes you wonder.

Amway Works!

Hello,

Well I am just emailing you because I'm not sure you see the whole picture. I know you have done you're research, but that doesn't mean you see your dream. I am a distributor with a terrific line of upline. I love this business for the potential alone. Many people have told me I am nuts and even more have told me to get out for "my own good". Of course none were in the system. When I came home from the first meeting I talked with friends and family. My friends told me that they were going to brainwash me. That it was a cult. That it was only for poor people. My mother told me it was a scam and cried when I told her I was going to sign up. I didn't understand any of this. I mean sure I know people don't like to be sold something, but this was beyond. My Dad was the only one who backed me up saying that if nothing else it would be a good learning oppurtunity. I went to the meetings without missing one. I reremembered all those dreams that I see others lose. They say that it is a matter of reality. I believe in myself more then that. I don't want to have to settle for things. I saw an oppurtunity to help myself and more importantly to help others. When my upline came over to sign me up, my dad treated the guy like shit. He had been a distributor in the 70's when it was a really hard job. We have it easy now. Now he is my downline. Now I have yet to make a "profit" from the business, but I don't think this is anyone's fault. Except mine. I am afraid of the "No". Of people like you who might want to tear down my dream. There are alot of wonderful people in this business. Maybe the systems are making a profit from the tapes, functions, and SLM's, but it doesn't matter. They keep my dream alive. I am not stiffled to believe that maybe if I really save I can have a second car when I am 40. Do you know that most people's dream is an addition to their house or a camper. I'm not saying that is a bad dream, but it should be a start. Not an end. I rather lose all my money then lose my dream. Now of course I am not losing much right now. Everything I save from buying from myself I put back into the dream. My dream. That is what is ee you are overlooking. The dream. that is what we "sell" to people. Do you know why we don't talk about Amway till the end of a meeting. Because of the horrible image it has. Amway isn't my business. It is just a supplier. I am my business and the system I go by. Maybe you lost your dream somewhere or maybe you had a bad experience out there. I just hope you don't give up on it completly. Dare to dream is the saying. Dare to dream and keep that dream in mind when thinking of the opputunity Amway represents. My hopes go with you.

What a page! It is all that I have ever thought about ScamWay and more. My husband and I got involved with this about 4 years ago. Thankfully it only took me about 6 months to realize what a mess we were headed for. How I wish this information would have been available to me then. To think that I thought I was the one that was nuts!

I think the thing that really topped it off for me was one of the rallies that we attended, the " little wife" was up there telling all of us ladies in the audience how we should all be buying our clothes from "the catalogue". Like she picked that gown up from there! Talk about the "Stepford Wives" How about the "Stepford Couples"

Hi, Sid...

My cousin recruited me into Amway in the spring of '91. It didn't take me long to smell the coffee. Among Amway's (many) fatal flaws:

1. Amway's so-called "wholesale" prices are extortionary, even before adding in the shipping costs.

2. The "convenience" of "shopping from home" involved: phoning in the order at a specified time on Sunday afternoon; waiting a week and a day, then driving, the following Monday evening, to my cousin's place for product pickup, a one-hour drive; filling out paperwork in tripli- cate; driving an hour home, by which time my evening was shot. Amway's Pollyannas tried to spin this weekly ordeal into an "incentive" to build my business to direct-distributor status. Wrong: it was an incentive to drive to the corner store 5 minutes away, put out my warm little hand to pick up the item I sought, take it to the checkout counter, pay less than half of Amway's price while filling out no paperwork, and get home maybe 20 minutes after leaving.

3. The very name "Amway" has become a bad joke, a gag, a punchline, to people nationwide. I already freely associate myself with a number of "labels" that are often ridiculed: Christian, Baptist, conservative, Texan, Southerner, etc. Unlike Amway, these are things that are impor- tant to me. Unlike Amway, these aren't things I'm ashamed of or feel the need to hide.

4. The thing that, after only a few months, finally got to me was something I saw at my cousin's house one night during product pickup. My cousin had a printing calculator for his downline to use while fill- ing out that wretched paperwork. In my past life as an accountant (before I got into radio), I used more 10-key adders than you've had hot lunches, and my cousin's adder was, without a doubt, the slowest, noisi- est, cheesiest, most unresponsive, most obnoxious piece o' crap I'd ever totted up numbers on. What made this observation significant was that the adder ("Made In USA") proudly sported an Amway logo. I knew then that I was dealing with a soap-'n'-cleansers company that had badly lost its focus. Some 2500 years ago, Sun Tzu wrote in "The Art of War" that if you try to be strong in all places, you'll just spread yourself too thin and be weak in all places. Amway, seeking to broaden its product line, proudly peddles junk. I walked. Never looked back.

No idea whether my cousin and his wife are still involved. At the time of my brief involvement, I (as a radio broadcaster and therefore one of the lowest-paid college-educated white males in North America) was making $7/hr, with a take-home of barely $1000/month. I told my cousin it was a good thing I knew how to budget or I'd be in a world of trouble. To my amazement, he said, "I sure wish WE knew how to budget!" Indicating: 1) he and his wife had no way of knowing whether their Amway venture was running at a profit or a loss; 2) they were making so much money as engineers (both of them) for an Exxon subsidiary that it didn't make any difference; 3) Amway is one of those "opportunities" that are affordable only to those who are already making so much money that they don't need an "opportunity" like Amway.

Earlier this year, a guest on Jim Bohanon's late-night radio talk show referred to Amway as a cult. Not having been exposed to that aspect of the "business," I thought his statement a tad hyperbolic... until I read your pages, and Russell Glasser's, and a few others. Wow.

I think it would be amusing (if not too much work; you'd be a better judge of that than I) if you were to supplement your response pages with a breakdown of the numbers/precentages of your pro-Amway e-mails that:

1. Tell you to get a life.

2. Call you a dream stealer.

3. Demand to know: what you do for a living; how much money you make; what you have to "offer" that's better than Amway; whether you do anything "positive" or "constructive."

4. Assume you are a disgruntled ex-distributor with a score to settle, and/or are a failure in all other aspects of life, or otherwise engage in presumptuous amateur psychoanalysis.

5. Tell you that you have too much (oops!.. make that "to much") time on your hands, and/or claim that if you'd put half as much time and effort into your (presumed) Amway distributorship as you do into this web site, yadda-yadda-yadda...

6. ARE WRITTEN ALL IN CAPS.

7. are written with little or no capitalization or punctuation as though youre hearing from e e cummings

8. Featcher kronic mispelllings fo comon wurds.

9. Include any conjugation of the F-word.

10. Say that a college education is a scam, a job is a cult, and ALL businesses are pyramids.

11. Gloat in advance about walking the beaches of the world.

12. Accuse you of being opposed to free enterprise, while themselves showing an appalling lack of understanding of even the most basic prin- ciples of market economics.

13. Say that those who quit Amway were inappropriately looking for a "get-rich-quick scheme"... even though their "retire in 2 to 5 years" pitch fits that description.

14. Say that nobody ever said Amway would be easy... when their own estimate of 10 to 15 hours a week says exactly that.

15. Say that Amway is "a business, like any other"... even though their entire pitch is based on the claim that Amway is a business UNLIKE any other.

16. Claim that Consumer Reports' product comparisons don't take into account the "fact" that Amway's products are concentrated. ("Concen- trated" toilet paper? In the words of Kelly Bundy, "The mind wobbles!")

17. Parade wildly varying figures concerning how much money Amway made last year, how many distributors they have, or how many countries they're doing business in.

18. Wonder why Coca-Cola, MCI, and all those other Fortune 500 companies would enter into a "partnership" or "joint venture" with a cult... when they have, of course, entered into no such arrangements.

19. Wonder why, if Amway is a pyramid, the FTC would sing Amway's praises and declare it squeaky-clean... when they have, of course, done no such thing.

20. Claim that you wouldn't have the guts or the integrity to post their response... when you have, of course, done exactly that, again and again and again.

21. Call you a loser.

22. Call you a looser.

...And so on and on. For responses that include 2, 3, 4, or more of these same stale, sad, tired, lame, threadbare, specious, shopworn, pat, predictable comebacks and semi-literate characteristics (plus any others you may wish to add... the list is endless!), you could even come up with a grading scale, a points system, to evaluate their proficiency in the language of "Ambonics." The scale could be called "Predictability Value/Brainwash Value" (or PV/BV, for short).

Like I said, a mountain o' work, probably, but it'd be entertaining.

Gotta motor. Sorry I can't give you this e-mail, but my blood- lusting capitalist overlords, who tell me when to get up, when to go to bed, and when to take a dump, don't like us to receive personal messages here. I'm at my J-O-B, which I L-O-V-E.

Be reading you, Sid. As Yoda would put it, "Up the good work keep."

Mr. Schwartz iam glad i found your page. We were in the business for 4 years. We spent a ton of cash on tools. We were hoodwinked. Now I am trying to recoop some of the money. A mere $600. InterNET told me no problem you can return that, but i did not have the right access number. Go upline. I did. 9 months later I have a check for $68.00. Never have I experienced business practices like this. The thing that really ticks me off is that my direct on several occasions said his tool bonus check was regularly bigger than his amway monthly bonus check. (Which was about $2500 to $3000 a month) But he cant help me return these tools, All of wich internet said they would take. Help me if you can. Thanks.

I use to think anybody who got involved with Amway was some kind of flake. As an engineering consultant I have had the opportunity to work for the Amway Corporation in several areas. I have found them to be a very sincere company. Ready to spend the money needed to improve their operation and be most progressive. I had never been approached by a distributor except for 20 years ago as a young sailor. I blew off the idea without any investigation. Recently, a fellow engineer retired at the age of 38. I made him expain the program to me. I them spent 14 months investigating on my own.

The problem I have found is that some of the distributors in the past had no idea how to run a BUSINESS OF THEIR OWN in a professional manner. As I understand it and agree, Catalog shopping will become the preferred shopping method in the very near future to obtain the simple items of life. Amway has made the investment to retool themselves to take advantage of this Megatread.

I wish I had more time to expand on this but that will have to wait. Forget the hype -- Amway is a real opportunity for professional thinking individuals. It is far to easy to be critical of something new when you have no investment in it of the desire to make it work. Prehaps if Amway required a $50,000 investment people would be more driven to be successful.

I can't believe I am doing this. My husband has been involved in Amway since 1988 in the Yager organization. I actually bought a kit from him while we were dating. I was very involved in the business with him. I guess I was caught up in all the wealth and the "what ifs" We were married in 1990 when I was 19 and are still happily married except for his involvment in Amway. I started drifting away from the business about 3 years ago after realizing it was a cult. The late night functions until 1 or 2 am...the diamond speaker on stage telling all men in the audience to tell their wives to "follow or get left behind". I think the real kicker was when I was 7 months pregnant and the speaker requested that no one leave the room while he finished his speech. It was very disturbing, about abortion actually. I am pro-life but I did not want to hear how babies are killed during procedures so that this speaker could collect money for the PA Pro-Life Assoc, especially since I was pregnant. I became very upset, plus I had to go to the bathroom! When I proceeded to leave the ballroom, I was stopped by a "direct distributor guard" at the door who told me I was not allowed to leave. In a loud voice I yelled " Move out of my way NOW!! I am pregnant!!" He moved and let me out but by then I was in tears. There was another instance where I had a severe stomach ache. We were at a function at a Holiday Inn and my husband refused to take me home. He didn't want to miss anything. I ended up paying $65 to check into a hotel room until the function was over after midnight. He has also driven us in blizzard conditions to training sessions 2 hours away so that he can hear our Diamond tell those who made it that we are the true go-getters. (by the way, by the time we arrived there was only 1/2 hour left of the function.) He is at a function now. He rarely evers misses one. He even went to one out of town when I was 40 weeks pregnant. What I don't understand is he doesn't do anything with it. We haven't had a group in 2 years. He buys the tapes, products and attends the seminars but that's it. He refuses to quit though. I think he's afraid of being called a "wimp" and a "loser". His up-line, who he considers his mentor and friend is probably the main reason he stays in. I guess to hear this guy tell him to "Keep on keeping on" and to keep him as a friend. It has been over 9 years and we have lost a lot of money. I can't talk about it to my husband. He becomes very defensive of Amway. I doubt he'll ever quit. He hates the word "quit" I just want to be an average American upper middle class family. (and we are doing fine without income from the business) But you see "average" is not in his vocabulary. I have been told by our upline that I am negative and trying to steal my husband's dreams. I love my husband and had supported him for years in this business but I believe he has a greater potential elsewhere. Too much time has been wasted. Thank you for letting me vent after all these years.

i was just wondering if you have ever been a distributer for amway, Are you speaking from experience ? Personally i make a little over $10k A month and I work only 15 hours a week. How could you slam something that would let a 21 year old make this kind of $$.

Just thought you may want to take a look at Amway's change in direction -- called Home Shopping Delivered.

It's a whole new approach to doing "the business". For a one time loser with the business, to now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, you should take a look.

I'm not going to spout off and say bad things. As a distributor, I can say the books, the tapes and functions are optional. We're doing the best we can with what we have. We are buying the tapes and only one of us goes to the functions. My sponsor (a direct distributor) has been more than understanding and helpful.

And that's all one can ask. It all boils down to your sponsor. For those that sat at home, listened to tapes and hoped they became diamonds are the ones with an ax to grind.

There are far worse companies out there than Amway. Far worse. But I guess when you're the biggest, you're a target.

Here's some insight.....Excel Telecommunications is in BIG financial trouble, look into that one......Or is your life's desire to seek out and destroy Amway.

There are going to be people who buy a hand full of tapes.....try two calls....Their parents say no as does their brother or sister....They quit and they're mad.......People in our society....want a whole lot for nothing.........It's a fact.........If I work this....It will work....I can't quit after a month or even a year for that matter.....And I have to work it more than one night a week and that includes that one night listening to a tape.......There's no promise for riches quick....Some do succeed quicker than others.......but if working hard and smart are combined.....it can happen......

Enough of my babble.......but I do believe there's more to life than sitting on the net and looking for ways to shoot down something that's making people their own boss........

One question....Name a better MLM than Amway........Name one.......

Hi Sidney,

Just had a few moments to check out your site, but it looks very interesting. I will visit with my new printer and print off your stuff for my father. His buddy got him into Amway and now his house is wall to wall tapes and get rich quick books. That's the way they make the big $, those friggin' tapes, etc.

He is mad at us, (his 5 kids) that we don't want to be little amway sales people. We just don't see the "vision and dream" that is amway.

Listening to this "Amway-speak" is just such a load of manure. I don't want to go to a meeting to hear the "PLAN".

They tell you to invite friends to an investment mtg, NOT telling you its Amway, cuz they know you won't come. He is the WWDB group.

Anyway, this went longer than I had planned. Love your page.

Amway is a great business where people can come together and show support to others. Over the last four years I've been exposed to people with integrity, strength, and an ability to look beyind where they are now. I've seen people set goals, and acheive them. I've seen people reach goals that they otherwise would not have hit. I've been with a bunch of winners for the last four years.

I'll put out a challenge to you. If you can show me some thing better to do than Amway, I'll quit right now, and do what you show me. Let's see what you've got.

Good Day,Syd: Hear about the Amway distrib. whose wife of 15 years was still a virgin?

He just sat on the end of the bed and told her how GREEAAT IT WAS GONNA BE!!!! From your freind in Canada.

AMWAY stole my best friend and I talked him into it!

My best friend who was my best man and I was his called me one day and told me about this guy who approached him at a video store and then called him later to talk to him about a business opportunity. I told him it sounded like a MLM and knowing a little about them I encouraged him to listen to what the guy had to say because you could make a lot of money in them. Well he did listen and now is an AMWAY freak as I like to call them. I decided to be his first distributor and I purchased the kit and ended up spending a lot of money to fly to Tennesse to an F.E.D. to listen to Diamonds tell the same story for three days. My wife and I even got excited about the deal but fortunately I live thousands of miles away and was not able to attend the weekly meetings and pep sessions. Eventually I decided to pursue my real interests, but encouraged my friend on. Thats when I lost him. He has decided that I'm not worth the time or the money to contact anymore. At first I thought that it was just because he didn't have the extra money (have to keep buying those motivational tapes you know), but eventually I realized that because I wasn't an AMWAY buddy I wasn't his buddy anymore. The last straw was when my best friend in the whole world didn't bother to acknowledge the birth of my first baby I finally realized what AMWAY does to people. I have remained a distributor mainly in case I decided to purchase any products and for the discount at Kinko's and Gateway but I will probably drop my distributorship at the end of the year and probably never hear from my friend again.

I recently became an Amway distributor and I fail to see any of the cult behavior that I read about in this site. The people I have met have been decent hardworking people that feel there is more to life than working 8 to 5 for someone else and then retiring at on a feeble pension. The whiners who lose money don't do what is necessary to make it work which is change their attitude about the traditional job. I personally have not made a ton of money yet, but my regular job will not get me ahead either. If a person acts different is that bad? I worked with some extremely negative people who say nothing but things like can't,don't,and won't. The Amway people are positive and always ready to help you when ask for advice or guidance. These same negative people sit around watching TV nightly and moan and groan that nothing goes right in their life, but won't do anything about it except buy a lottery ticket.

Dear Sidney Schwartz,

I am one of the lucky ones, who thanks to the Internet had the opportunity to find out what 'Interactive Distribution/Amway' really is. The Open meeting I went to, a lot of brand names likes Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Motorola etc was mentioned, and I was obviously interested if I could buy all brand name items at 30% less then normal retail. In the "Personal Business Owner' leaflet I was given, it clearly states "The Products are supplied by a corporation which started etc. and then In joint venture with major manufacturers such as Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Motorola, MCI, Sony, General Motors etc., " Is this not false advertisement??? They even mentioned I could buy a BMW. I then asked to see the shop and my wife decide to buy a catalogue (they didn't seem to want us to have one, or at least not until we had signed up). How about a class action :-)))

Sidney,

What motivates you to put all the time and effort into this web site?

Are you planning on an article about you the author?

What brought your attention to amway?When? Who pays for this web site? What do you do when you are not slaming Amway? How do you make a living?

What is your involvment with P&G? How much do they pay you?

What kind of creditability does Sidney Schwartz?

I think you owe it to your readers a little background info on yourself and what makes you such an expert.

I was doing a search on Amway and found your web site. I used to be involved in another organization similar to the "Dream Builders" called INA. I read the entire complaint against the Britt/Yager organizations. There is no follow up of this court action nor is there any information on how to address these same complaints against other Amway organizations that have done the same to their "downlines".

Please let me know what has happened with this particular suit and whether it ended up including any other Amway organizations similar to the Brill/Yager organizations. These two sound VERY similar to the INA organization and could definitely be included in this class action lawsuit.

Thank you for your time and I trust this suit went in your favor.

Hi schwartz. I'm not going to take too much time saying this because I'm sure you have already heared it. I live in Panama and I'm adoctor in medicine. I understood that the Amway business had, like all businesses, a potential to be developed and not every body was going to be willing to pay the price of doing it. So leave alone the people who choosed this business as their opportunitty to create an income and do something with your life, because sincerely I think that the only person that is really being controled by Amway is you that have to be monitoring this sigth every day for hours.

Get something more productive to do please. By

GREAT JOB !!!!

I just wanted to thank you for creating this page. The information has helped me in a very personal way. Two years ago, two of my closest friends became ambots. Since day one they have had nothing to do with me, one of them even got vulgar with me over the phone. They made comments to me like"why don't you just quit college, you are not going to make any money when you get out" and "all you are doing is wasting you time and money". One of these guys even quit college with one year to go before finishing a BS in business. Well to bring things up to date: one guy quit and one is still active, however, he is having to sell his vehicle, his computer and has not even got close to becoming a direct. After all this, I would still like to be friends with these guys, what can I do to get them to wake up and realize what's happening?

Thanks !

Sidney,

I wanted to write to you for two reasons. First of all, to thank you for all the information your site provides. About a year ago, my girlfriend got drawn in by the Amway folks. I didn't know for sure what they were all about but I had a feeling that there was something shady going on. Needless to say, after showing her the info your site provided, she walked away and convinced all of her downline and some of her upline to walk too. That is what I thank you for. Secondly, to ask you that we both have been quite curios about. We wondered what exactly is your motivation for running that site? I run a small website of my own and I know the work involved, what would you have to gain by running yours? I get the feeling that you may be a disgruntled ex-Amway distributor. Unlike some of the current Amway types, I wouldn't hold that against you. You may be disgruntled but you facts are solid and your sources are verifiable so you get no negative comments from me. Either way, thanks again for saving us and keep up the good work.

Dear Sir,

I believe you must have the lowest self esteem of anybody I know.You seem to forget how much Amway does for worldwide charities and the enviroment.

I know for myself that I would not have got my successfull job except for being involved in the Amway network.

If you want to remain in the same position that you are for the rest of your life,then fine,but what gives you the right to try and steal peoples dreams?

Words amaze me as to the tripe that is written within your homepage.

I think it is so funny that someone so broke would waste all their time making a anti-amway website. While you spend the rest of your life chasing nothing except lost hopes, I will continue to make money from amway.

p.s. Thanks to Amway, when I graduate from college in May I will never have to apply for a job

As I read through these responses there is one point I would like to add to the debate... and this is the idea that the Amway "system" or whatever gets people to basically donate ridiculous amounts of labour/time in an effort to "establish" their business.

Amway is a scam. It brainswashes individuals into believing that they are working for themselves but in reality they are working for a very profitable corporation who provides the products - and a dream. They become slaves to the products - conforming to prescribed consumption habits, not to mention the ideological baggage.

Also, i find it very interesting that couples are actively recruited My aunt and uncle have been pursuing their Amway mega-money dream for over a year now, and the family is sincerely worried about their marriage - they are caught in a catch 22. Even if one of them has doubts, they don't talk about it, because the other would feel that he/she was abandonning their strange brew of an economic/religious salvation. Their marriage has become not only an emotional and social unit... but one linked to their "success."

Amway is dangerous, and fundamentally exploitive of people's insecurities.

First off, please note that this mail is only in my personal capacity and my employer has nothing to do with it. Feel free to quote me after completely removing any references that can be traced back to me.

I was first accosted in the mall by this (Asian) Indian lady. (I too am Asian Indian). She appeared so very friendly. Like a fool I exchanged phone numbers thinking my wife and I will be glad to make the acquaintance her and her husband.

I got the call in two days. "Business Opportunity", "Do you have an open mind" and all that schpiel. Something said this wasn't OK (I am the worst cynic you can find.). I finally ended the conversation with a polite "no, thanks".

They kept on calling, trying to get themselves invited to my house. I even got suckered into inviting them (because at that time I did not know of all this). But later it did not seem right. They hardly knew me and seemed to be in a desperate hurry to get to my house and offer me this "incredible business opportunity".

I finally got rid of them by repeatedly canceling appointments. Think they got the message.

You won't believe me, I met another idiot of the same kind last week at a grocery store. It happened exactly as described in your site and the others -- the guy first talks about general things, then we introduce ourselves, say "pleased to meet you" and all that. He takes the numbers.

Next day, a phone call with ***EXACTLY*** the same dialogue that the previous guy mouthed to me! Well this time I cut him off before he could waste my time. Not only that I promised myself this is the last time I will speak with him.

I believe that if something sounds too good to be true then it probably is. I believe in hard work and frugality as a means to emancipation. Work hard, save up as much as you can, limit your wants (don't be materialistic) and you can be happy.

[For some material to counter all the BS, I suggest that prospective "millionaires" read "Your Money Or Your Life" by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin]

Thanks so much for the illuminating site. Next time I get an unsolicited friendly person at the mall asking for a phone number, I will leave out the politeness.

I was amazed at the amount of bad press you give to Amway Business, with little or no press given to the thousands of success stories that are out there. I admit that the Amway business is not for everyone, but there are few, if any, other opportunies out there that can compete with the Amway opportunity in any category you would care to pick. While you are busy attacking Amway, there is some "mind controlling cult" out there sucking people in with little or no positive outcome for those people. Try a little balance and take a look at them. My experience with the Amway Business Opportunity is that more people are better off from having the association with Amway business than they were before they got involved. As far as mind control goes, the simple fact that they left the business shows that there is no mind control. People are free to do as much or as little in their businesses as they want. It is, after all, THEIR business, not Amway's, not the upline's, but theirs.

I appreciate you sharing your experience with me. I'm 23 and working on my masters and am up to my eyeballs in school debt. I don't understand why I didn't do any homework before ALMOST buying a kit and getting involved with a scam. I appreciate the time you've put into your exhaustive database. I just don't know what I was thinking...

Hi,

I am just amazed by the amount of letters and new sites that are a direct results of the Amway SCAM !!!! You are so right about all of us MLM survivors "sticking" together and needing a forum to express our views and heal ourselves from the horrors of the brainwashing we were subjected to !!! We "got in" in April of 94 and finally woke up from our "nightmare" and left completly in May 97. All of these sites have helped us to know that we were not alone, that we were not the only people who were sooooo easily manipulated and decieved by the unscrupulous, dream stealing, losers(to use thier own words) that are in the Amway organization !!! And for all you AmBots out there... you are not worthy of hearing our story..... you are still dream stealing - losers who who think that Dexter Yaeger is GOD.... no matter what we or anyone else has to say !!! I will let you know though that we tell everyone and anyone who will listen to stay away.....FAR away...... and to be afraid.... be VERY afraid...... of anyone who approaches them with any of the usual "recruiting" phrases and believe me ... we know them all..... and we know where you recruit... And I don't care what you say... you would'nt be cruising these sites if you did'nt have a doubt in your mind.... so you better think long and hard... I challenge you to "back away" from your "business" for one month: no tapes, no functions, no AmVox, no contact with anyone at all.... should'nt be hard to do since this "business" is capable of: number one: running itself and number two: if you have such a "wonderful" understanding" upline they won't mind taking over "your group" for you during your absence. Go ahead give it a try !! We are still AMAZED after five months of freedom from Amway how wonderful our lives are and how much MONEY we have in the bank now and how much TIME we have now ... to spend with our kids, and go on vacations....... and live our lives the way we choose !!! I am very grateful to all your sites.... it has helped us to realize that WE were not the fools...........

For about half the time you are spending on this web site, you could be building a very, successful Amway business. Instead, most people choose to be one of the 97% of people at age 65 and over who will be dead, broke, or dependent on others. Those of us who truly understand the Amway business, who have chosen to be skeptical about it and asked questions and who are willing to help others will be one of the 3% of Americans who are financially independent at the age of 65. Many people are understandably bitter about Amway due to past experiences with independent distributors who chose to be misleading and "lure" people in. The new educational system teaches distributors how to build a "consumer network" instead of just selling products. We buy these products anyway, why not buy them from our own business. By finding others who would like to do the same, you build a residual income. Amway is not a pyramid, most corporations are and people don't realize this. In Amway, you can make more $ than the person who sponsored you, but in other corporations you can't make more than your boss and your chances of making it to the top depend on others retiring, stepping down, or dying. Yes, Amway people are very positive people because they don't have to compete with their peers in order to make $. Motivational organizations teach distributors how to duplicate their efforts, therefore doing business more efficiently. They are the ones who CHOSE to be successful and stop pitying themselves and are teaching others how to do it. Our conventions cost 1/4 to 1/5 what it costs to go to other corporations' conventions, so they are not making money that way. If you had a bad experience with a doctor, would you start a web site forming a bad judgment about all doctors? Making generalizations is never accurate!!!!

Thanx for this page!My friend(so-called)filled my head yesterday with this Amway stuff,but I didn't like it.Your page only made my opinion stronger.You have not to reply,I just want to thank you.

Well, that's some really interesting stuff. But I do have a question: I don't know about formaldahyde in the LOC or whatever it is, and I don't know about any lawsuits, but I do know that Amway did something like 7 billion dollars in business last year, that if the UN runs the world, they do their homework, and that if the formaldahyde thing is true, alot of people would probably be dead right now. But besides that, one thing I noticed is that most of the problems people have with Amway aren't with the corporation, it's with the door-to-door sales people. (Same problem I have since my mom used to be in Amway.) So for the 10 or 20 people who have problems with individual people, compared with the thousands who are filthy rich in Amway, what seems more credible?

P.S., Here's another fact I found before I sent this letter. Apparently, Amway has different groups in it. The only group that is supposed to be doing anything big is called "Worldwide." Have you looked into them?

you are a joke man. Get some up to date facts.

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