### Amway: The Untold Story

## Your Comments, Part 27

(3/97)

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Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.

This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.

[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]

`I wanted to say thank you for your hard work in putting this information together. It has been very helpful for what I am going through right now as a distributor. I can finally say........."I have seen the light". Thanks again.`

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS PAGE. I FEEL I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE. IS THERE A GOOD HOME BUSINESS THAT YOU COULD RECOMMEND.EXAMPLE IN CUSTOMER DIRECT MARKETING.

I really would like to see negative letters from sane rational people, who have been in the business for a while, not 10 microseconds like most of the whingers, people who have tried to follow "the system" and see what they have to say about it! The world is full of losers, people who would like to blame their obesity on chocolate manufacturers, their lack of achievement on the school system, their lack low income on the "crisis", but never look to themselves for the blame for anything. Amway is a business opportunity, not like any other because that would be a lie, but still it's just a business, if you feel bullied into buying tapes etc., then you've probuably been bullied into buying the car you drive, the house where you live and the clothes you wear. Nobody takes out a gun and makes you do anything!! And if you do decide to go "with the cult", I agree, you can spend a considerable amount of money on tapes and functions, but I can assure you that my friends have spent a hell of a lot more on compact discs, videos etc., than I have on "the system" and I know I've learnt from this material, whereas all they've done is help Mr. M Jackson, Spice girls etc., get that little bit richer. There's no harm in the business at all, honestly, if it was a pyramid do you think it could have bluffed its way through so many law suits... My advice to anyone who has been considering the business yet now has doubts after seeing this web site should talk about the business with their upline, investigate it through their local departmanet of commerce, citizens advice, whatever, and give it a try without having to invert a fortune and make a decision based on information not misinformation from a series of disgruntled distributors who didn't make it rich in 2 weeks (I'd like to see how successfull these people are in other aspects of their life, but I think it would be very sad!)

Dear Sidney,

My wife and I have been out of Amway for over 10 years. We were involved with the organization for over 5 years. I am an intelligent common sense induvidual who has a business background. I have read your material and still come to the conclusion that your experiences with Amway have to do with your experiences with the individuals involved and not with the organization itself.

I own a lot of property and am in a lot of mainstream business organizations, I still consider the experience I had in the company of the people of Amway a very valuable and rewarding one.

I am sure you are a champion of your cause, unfortunately your cause seems based on sour grapes.

Your material seems to be outdated. One thing is that Amway does not distribute the tapes and motivational techniques that you are so adamantly against. That is done by an independant affiliate called WorldWide DreamBuilders. The data that you present is from the seventies and eighties, the company has since then implemented new procedures and strongly discourages the types of behaviors that may have occurred in the past.

Sidney, I had to respond to the guy who quoted "Joe's gonna talk about bowling."

In his letter to you he claims, "You work 40hours a week, blah blah blah and you don't have $6 for a tape?" You know, that is what my sponsor told us. We worked 40hours a week, we made good money, we had money in the bank and we believed our sponsor. Ok, so we spent the $6 on a tape. When they finally reeled us in on the 1 tape of the week then they said, "Well you have to get the go-getter tape too, what you don't have $12 for 2 tapes?" Ok, so what's $12 for a couple of tapes. We went for it.....then.....they say, "Well you have to go to the open meetings every week, it's only $5 pp, what? you don't have an extra $10 per week for a meeting?" Ok, now we're up to $22 per week, or $1,144 per year just in tapes and opens.

Next, they say well you have to go to the monthly regional meeting at $14 per person, what? you don't have $14? Now we are up to $1,312 per year.

What? you don't have $8.00 per month for book of the month? $1,408 per year.

What? you don't have money to go to a major function? Use your vacation money? Use your credit card.... Average $800 per weekend (2people) - 4 times a year.....Now we are up to $4,608 per year!!!!

What? you don't have a hundred dollars to purchase books, tapes and promotional materials at the functions? Add that in and your at about

$5,008 per year!!!!!!!

You know what? -- I use to have that much to spend on vacations and just simply enjoying my life -- now, after 4years in the business we are $20,000 in the hole and working 60-70 hours to pay it off! Our house is falling apart because we have financially neglected it for four years and we can't even afford a vacation. YOU KNOW WHAT????? NO DUMBHEAD I DON'T HAVE $6 FOR A TAPE!!!!! IT'S JUST BAIT TO REEL YOU IN HOOK LINE AND SINKER -- DON'T FALL FOR IT!!!!!

Ok -- here I go again.....to the Silver Producer in the ILD system.

Corporate America has one difference.....you are not investing $5,000 per year to make a measly couple bucks a month. You go to work you put your 40hours in and you get a pay check, not next month, not next year, not 2-5 years from now, this week!!!!! No you may not make a million or be able to lay on the beaches every day of the week, but an honest living is nothing to put people down for.

The thing I hated about being in Amway was the fact that the leaders in the business always put people down who didn't do Amway. Like my family, who purchased products, supported us but just didn't want to do the damn thing....I was told "Don't worry, they're just losers, they don't have

a big enough dream." Oh, thanks, my flesh and blood who IS there for me Now, are the losers?, where are you AMWAY DIRECTS????? Are you calling me offering to help us financially get back on our feet??? NO.... why????? because you can't make it yourselves. We advised our group we were leaving 1/1/97 - 3months later we haven't heard a word from you... "But I thought we were friends?" I heard when we sent out upline the letter.

Yeah right.....Amway it just what we need in our lives, believe everyone else around you are losers, and alienate yourselves from everyone, my company where I work doesn't do that. And when I leave my job and come home I can do whatever I please with whomever I please.

Sorry, I guess I'm a little bitter... all that overtime I've been working lately.

Sidney.

I have been doing some calculations using the figures and comments on your page and The Other side of the plan. There seems to be a consensus amongst both pro and anti amway people that pursuing the plan costs about $5,000 per year. Based on the claimed 10 hours a week to promote it we can assume that the distributors effort is worth about $5000 per year based on $10 per hour which is a pretty minimum wage.

It follows that to make money from amway you need to receive at least $10,000 per year from Amway. From Amways figures we find that the average income of direct distributors is $16,500 so the average income from The Business as opposed to their own labour is about $6500. However for some directs to earn more than this others would have to earn less. A reasonable distribution of incomes amongst direct distributors would look something like this.

1 person earning $250,000
8 people earning $100,000
32 people earning $50,000
290 people earning $10,000

if each of these people has to meet $10,000 in expenses then it appears that only the top 41 are actually showing a profit on their Amway Business thats about 1 Direct distributor in 8. so thow far up the tree do you have to get before you are showing a profit.

According to the Amway figures 1% of active distributors make the Direct level but only 40% of all distributors a are considered active, That means one distributor in 250 makes it to direct. There are therefore about 10,000 Directs total world wide. Of these 10,000 about 8,750 are not making much more money than they would get working weekends in the local petrol station. So that leaves 1250 getting a real income from their Amway business and that's the world wide figure. About a 1000 of these people are only earning a reasonable living @ $50,000. pa which they could expect from a good job. So there you have it, about 250 people world wide are making a good income out of Amway. Who says you can't make money out of it!!!

To put this in another light; to realise the dream you need to have 10,000 people working for you, only 4 of whom are actually getting an income from what they are doing. I think this is defined as, Do unto others before they do unto you, which isn't quite the way it was stated in the bible.

If these people spent the money on lottery tickets they would produce a lot more millionaires than amway. We have a million dollar lottery here which costs $20 a ticket with 200,000 tickets per draw. If the Amway prople used the resources they put into AMway to buy tickets in this about 25 of the 10,000 would become millionares every year (TAX FREE). Therfore you are 25 times more likely to become wealthy buying a lottery ticket than you are if you out your efforts into AMWAY.

As all these calculations are based on Amway figures It would be interesting to see if anyone attempts to refute them.

I am not saying that you can't make money selling retail but in the overall scheme of things in Amway retail is almost irrelevant. It would be interesting to know the highest ever monthly retail sales for an individual.

But you and I know that Ambots will not let the facts get in the way of a good dream.

Got a life Sidney!! Sure have if you've given up Amway.

[This one was sent by the same guy who claimed he was saving over $2,000 per year just by using Glister oral rinse for his 10 kids.]

Dear Sydney,

When I first began to use Amway soap, I could not help but notice how much longer the bars lasted by comparison to the standard brands. I would invite anyone who questions the value of Amway's products to conduct the following simple experiment. Take one bar of Zest and one bar of Amway and soak them overnight in water. At the end of this time, remove them and rub each one until all of the slimey residue has been removed and you are down to a hard bar again. Let them dry during the day and then repeat the process the following night, etc. You will find that at the end of four days, the bar of Zest will be almost totally gone, while the Amway bar will actually still be heavier than it was to begin with!

If you want to take my word for it, here are the results I obtained by actually weighing the bars at the end of each cycle:

      Amway  Caress   Dial    Dove    Ivory   Lava  Palmolive Zest
      -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----
       3.5     3.5     3.5     3.5     3.5     3.5     3.5     3.5
       4.1     3.7     3.6     3.7     3.5     3.3     3.1     3.3
       3.9     3.3     3.0     3.4     3.0     2.6     2.7     2.7
       3.9     3.1     2.7     3.2     2.6     2.0     2.2     2.1
       4.0     2.8     2.4     2.9     2.4     1.6     1.9     1.7
       4.0     2.7     2.4     3.0     2.0     1.3     1.8     1.3
       3.9     2.5     2.2     2.5     1.7     1.0     1.3     0.8
       4.1     2.3     2.2     2.6     1.6     0.7     1.1     0.6
       4.1     2.0     2.0     2.4     1.6     ---     0.9     0.4
       4.1     1.8     1.8     2.5     1.6     ---     0.7     ---
       4.1     1.6     1.7     2.3     1.5     ---     ---     ---
       4.2     1.2     1.3     2.7     1.3     ---     ---     ---

The rise in weight after the first cycle was undoubtedly due to the absorbtion and partial retention of water. After drying, the Amway and Ivory would both crack open, thereby admitting even more water to be absorbed during the following cycles. In the case of Amway, the material loss is very slight, and does not overwhelm the absorbtion effect, as is the case with all the other brands. As to why some of the curves are not more uniform, there was quite a bit of humidity variation (for example, it was raining on the day when Dove rose from 2.9 to 3.0) Also, the scale I used was a six dollar Chinese hanging one, not some super-accurate scientific digital model.

The following final measurement was taken after a week of drying out, so as to get a truer measure of material loss.

      Amway  Caress   Dial    Dove    Ivory   Lava  Palmolive Zest
      -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----
       3.1     0.7     0.6     1.2     0.6     0.4     0.3     0.4

On the basis of these results we can perform a linear extrapolation giving the following projected bar lifetimes (in days):

      Amway  Caress   Dial    Dove    Ivory   Lava  Palmolive Zest
      -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----   -----
        60      9       8      12      8       4       7       4

Thus we conclude that the Amway product lasts almost 20 times as long as the worst competitive brands, and 5 times longer than the best ones!

Almost everyone these days concedes that Amway products are superior in quality. But there is still a lot of mis-information out there as to their value on a cost-per-use basis. I would like to issue the following challenge to anyone who currently believes that Amway products are more expensive to use than the major common brands. Send a letter to:

[Address deleted: If you want to promote your Amway business then setup your own web site instead of trying to get a free ride on mine.]

giving me an address to which I can send you, free of charge, a bar of Awmay soap. Indicate your intention to conduct a comparison between that bar and whatever brand you are now using, and to report back to this site on your findings regarding its lastability, how well it cleans, how it leaves your skin feeling, and its fragrance. I'm sure Sydney will be very interested in receiving independent confirmation (or confutation) of my above stated results.

The suspicion naturally arises: is there any correlation between the fame of the respective products, and how long they last? Of course there is. It costs a lot of money to advertise a product to the point where practically every person in the civilized world can recite an imprecise and virtually meaningless catch phrase such as: "You're not really clean unless you're Zestfully clean!" How much incredibly expensive air time must have been purchased by the Procter and Gamble company on just that one insult to the consumers intelligence!

And how do you suppose they are going to be able to pay for all of that Madison Avenue hype? Are their chemists any less capable than Amway's of formulating a soap that will last several weeks rather just a few days? Of course not. But somehow they need to pay for all of that expensive advertising, and what better way to con people into buying an excessive amount of their product than to use one of the three big tricks, viz. Formulation for Accelerated Deterioration. (the other two are: Unnecessary Pre-dilution, and Planned Obsolescence.) Amway, of course, has no advertising costs. It relies on the strategy of producing products of honest value and unsurpassable quality whose reputation spreads by free word-of-mouth. The company operates, on principle, in accordance with the idea that it is better to have to explain price once, than to apologize for quality forever.

And what about price? The retail cost of one bar of Amway soap is 88 cents (an Amway member can get one for 56 cents). I paid 69 cents for an equivalent bar of Zest at Ralph's. So they cost roughly the same. But since the Amway product lasts on average ten times longer, the Procter and Gamble products actually cost about 1,000% more to use! As a single father with eight children ages 6 thru 24 and two teen-age foster kids, our family goes through soap and everything else like you wouldn't believe. I'd say we use up a bar a day, so when we were buying Zest, our yearly expense for just this one product was running around $300 Now that we have started using Amway, this has been reduced to about $25. In an earlier communication, I showed how our outlay for oral rinse has been reduced from $1,800 per year to $300 by switching from Listerine to Amway's Glister. I have not yet been able to analyze our complete consumables picture, including the fifty or so other Amway products we have begun to use, but I'm sure the total savings runs well into the multi-thousands of dollars.

Times, they are a changin'! Amway isn't any longer your grandma's little door to door soap sales operation. It is a 7 billion dollar a year company with a 37 year track record of continual growth, on the basis of which projections can be made of 100 billion by 2010. Amway Asia Pacific (AAP) is one of the hottest stocks on both the New York and Australian exchanges. The company, in concert with Network21, is rapidly building a global network of business and personal relationships that will serve to knit this planet together much more effectively than the impersonal internet. It is giving to vast populations just now emerging from repressive communist regimes (including China) an opportunity for which they are hungering, to launch their own personal businesses for virtually no capital and an easily affordable amount of spare time. Its impact on global inter-dependence, and thus world peace, will rival, and possibly exceed that of student exchange programs.

Amway's highly refined network marketing system is a perfect complement to the world wide web. The former facilitates the distribution of GOODS on a person-to-person interactive basis, the latter DATA. They go hand in hand. The internet enables people to access the INFORMATION superhighway.

And in the absence of a "Distranet", where stuff could be beamed around, Star-Trek style, Amway will remain the preferred connexion to the PRODUCT superhighway. Before the internet, INFORMATION only went in one direction - from the supplier to the consumer. Before Amway, MONEY only went in one direction, in fact the opposite way - from the consumer to the supplier.

Whenever there is a radical new paradigm shift, those whose interests are vested in a maintenance of the status quo will mount campaigns of resistance designed to protect themselves against the threat of change. It is no wonder that Procter and Gamble is mounting one last big desperation effort to sue Amway. But they will not be able to stifle the rising aspirations of awakening nations, whose people will not be so easily mesmerized by their sloganeering.

Update your information, revise your attitude, and don't get left behind. Hopefully you are beginning to wonder about the wisdom of objecting to a distribution system in which EVERYONE who participates is able to profit off theirs and other's purchases, while at the same time approving of the conventional scheme where the only one's who make money off you are a handful of owners and shareholders. Talk about a scam! If you want to do something useful with your life, join Amway and help put and end to the jobber-wholesaler- retailer-Madison Avenue PYRAMID that has been raking in trillions since the beginning of the industrial revolution!

[According to this guy's email address, he's posting his lengthy diatribes against the evil corporate American distribution system from Hewlett Packard Corp, which makes its billions manufacturing and distributing products through the evil jobber-wholesaler-retailer Madison Avenue PYRAMID. Lucky for him they do...otherwise he might not have a stinkin' loser J.O.B. to go to and a paycheck to blow on Amway mouthwash and soap.]

Kindest Regards, your friendly soap distributor,

Global Network21/Amway Distributor

dear sidney,

thanks for the information provided. i'm a person who looks before leaping. my friend who invited me is still my friend but can see all of the pros and cons. we all need to keep open minds to all that is out there. i truly do wish to start me own business some day. all the legal stuff and insurances can be a bit overwhelming. but i won't give up continuing to get informed before i l

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                                              p.

I happen to be poking around the web and thought I'd do an Amway search...lots of stuff. I have enjoyed your site. Some of the 'letters' you have on the site have been a riot. A couple of guys at work got hooked up in this. As is common, they tapped all their friends and co-workers. Being the inquisitive type, I dug around the local library before going to 'the' meeting. I found "Amway, Cult of Free Enterprise". The meeting was perfectly scripted, including a little attention getting gaff with the board marker.

Thanks for the work.

Hi Sidney,

My name is * and I sat through a sales pitch on Amway by my daughter and son-in-law or should I say the couple they work for!!! All claiming to be born again and that Amway promotes being born again etc etc etc.

Well I myself am born again and got very poor vibes from this whole Amway thing. Thus, I have initiated a study on Amway as a cult, which lead me to you!!!

Can you tell me the best way to deal with this? The best way to approach my daughter and her husband etc etc??

Would appreciate any useful information you might provide.

Looks like you are a former distributor who was too LAZY to make it in the business and bailed. If you put half the time into it as you do this rubbish you'd be better off.

I could not resist adding my comments to the 24 pages of letters you have recieved from supporters and antagonizers. My wife and I spent 5 years in the business and can identify with many of the interesting comments listed on yours as well as others anti-Amway pages. In January, we decided not to renew our distributorship.

There are a few comments from I would like to add to the site. It seems that the biggest gripe is the use and abuse of the "system." The tools can help to aid a distributor in their quest to build a business, yet we did feel some pressure to be on SOT, go-getter and book of the month by hearing that if we didnt, the likely-hood of success was slight. The functions were huge stretches and we were challenged to do whatever it took to attend. It put major stress on our marriage, finances and friendships.

Even though we sponsored 12 people, spent thousands of dollars, never missed a function, tape, seminar/rally, and did everything our sponsor said; in five years, the line of sponsorship to our Diamonds, Ron and Melanie Rummel, never changed. In January of 1997, to our knowledge, those upline are still the same pins they were when we joined. Our silver producers went quicksilver 8 months in a row and never advanced although they put in tons of hours and hundreds of thousands of miles. Yet, having met Ron and Melanie many many times, they are truly "good people."

I appreciated the change in attitude that was taught, I believe in myself and have a positive outlook on life, but most of that came from reading the books.

We are still in regular contact with the one couple we had left in January, and with our upline silvers, (who are now inactive because of some misgivings that they were reluctant to share).

Anyway, I would suggest to people, look at this business as closely as you would any other, give it a shot, and if it doesnt work for you, get out and try something else. Amway is not evil or coercive or a cult. It is a business that works for some and not for others. The people you become involved with are the key. If they are rotten, so will your experience be.

Incidentally, to distributors: profanity and threats don't enhance the image of distributors, nor does illiteracy and poor grammar. To: antagonists: Folks that get in, for the most part, only want a chance at a better way, they are only doing what they are taught, give em a break.

1 As I understand it The F.T.C. has been useing the Amway sales ann Mkt program as a yard stick for all other M.L.M."s If so what is the problum?

2 I've noted that most of you who have taken so much time trying to tell us about all the thing's wrong about Amway never say anything good about them. $6.8 billion is not done on the book and tapes, or by selling avg. to poor over priced products. Also,most of the information about Amway is dated. It would appear that it will be safer to take the information from a Amway person if all of you are going to remain so one sided, right? If all of you who have a problum with Amway and are truly trying to help people like myself get a better idea about this business,you'ed use up to date fact's and stop putting out all that opinion.I was showen how to generate apx. $1500.to $2000.00 per month.as a direct for Amway. Is this thing call SA.4400 a lie?

I am an active Amway distributor who has been in the business since late 1996. My "kit" cost me approximately $157.00 including product. I'm sure some people will be of the opinion that everything I say here is slanted because I am "new" and cannot see the clear picture yet. However, I have been involved in two other entrepreneurial enterprises over the past 5 years, Cell-Tech ($150) and STS ($759), so I feel that I can look at these opportunities with a relatively objective eye.

I sympathize with the people who have not achieved the level of success they wanted from the Amway opportunity. I can especially relate to the money issues (or lack thereof) because I do not make a killing in my "day" job either - about $300 a week net. (I'm an administrative assistant for one of the most successful global real estate companies.) After paying my bills (which are basic), I usually have about $50 a week to pay for my gas, food, etc. including anything I might purchase from the Amway Corporation. I think most readers would agree that's not a lot. However, I do make it to all the functions. I am going to one in April about 2 hours away. The room (2 beds) for the weekend cost me $81 and the function itself is $36 for a total of $117. Add gas, food, etc. and let's say $150 to $175. My boss (owner of a "conventional" business) recently went to their convention in Nashville. The function alone cost her $700. Call me strange, but I think $150 is reasonable, especially when you get the schedule of events for the upcoming year in December.

Also, I am on Tape of the Week and when I can, I also get Book of the Month. I have never been forced to buy anything in this business, and have not been told that I must follow the System or I will fail. I buy these things because I get some positive reinforcement from them. I was buying these kind of motivational tools before I ever even thought of becoming an Amway distributor and I would continue to buy them if I discontinued my distributorship. Personally, I have noticed an extreme improvement in my self-esteem and abilities, and in turn am seeing the positive potential in others as well.

Another point about the money everyone says they lost trying to build this business - All the opinions I've read came from people who were distributors for less than 5 years. When I saw the Plan, I was told that, on average, this is a 2 to 5 year endeavor. BUT PEOPLE, that's not written in stone!!! A LOT depends on your initiative, desires, and personal motivation. Stop blaming your upline and Dexter Yager! Are all your actions and outcomes so easily influenced by others and what they say? Did Dexter say to you personally, "You must work MY System or you will fail?" The upline promotes the System because it has proven to be a successful tool in developing distributorships. However, if you have a better idea, go for it! Nobody in this business says you can't try other avenues, it's just that others have tried them before with little success. Conventional businesses have tried out new ideas, found what worked and what didn't, and the result is called Company Policy. Lots of people follow THAT System to climb the Corporate Ladder to success. (The parellels are striking, don't you think?) And how many times have we seen somebody reach the pinnacle of their career in a conventional company only to be a victim of downsizing or age discrimination? How many of those people take their companies to court alleging misrepresentation? Don't our "conventional" companies tell us that in order to succeed in their business, we must follow their rules? If you want to get ahead, you follow their System, don't you? The difference is, in the Amway business, you can't be fired if you don't follow it. You may fail, but then that's your decision, isn't it?

Also, let's look at the people who were/are distributors for less than 5 years and lost money. For the sake of argument, let's say they had opened a retail store instead. Their initial investment would have included: buying or renting space, advertising, employee payroll, all sorts of tax and government permits, fees, and the like, as well as the big one - inventory which they must sell or take the loss on. Also, there are the "hidden" costs of lawyers and accountants and let's not forget that many new business owners need to take out a sizable loan to afford all of this. What does everybody say to them? "Good for you!" "I wish you the best!" "That's a great business to get into - the market's real good right now!" Now, let's look at the facts. Most conventional businesses fail in the first 5 years and of the ones that make it, most don't see any profit at all in that time. In fact, most operate in the red. To top it off, you're by yourself. You have to rely on your own experience. You can't get help from the guy down the street who sees you as competition.

Now let's look at the Amway opportunity. You have access to all of your upline, either directly or indirectly, and the knowledge they have attained through their experience. Yes, they have a vested interest in seeing you succeed because it strengthens their own organization, but so what? What difference does it make if you're succeeding, too? If you're unhappy with your sponsor or immediate upline, you can go further upline until you find the support you need. How easy is THAT to do in your "conventional" business? Also, if you fail in your retail store, you will probably have a lot more debt to pay off and a whole lot of inventory to use up. A lot of people don't seem to realize that the Amway Corporation has a 100% guarantee on its products. If you want out, they will take it all back and refund you. (Oh, by the way, you don't have to stockpile inventory and move it later. That's a myth.) "Dexter's evil plan" promotes personal consumption, not stockpiling. We all have to buy stuff, why not buy it from ourselves and our own business? And the products are good! I have not encountered anyone in or out of the business that tried the products and hated them. Besides, we carry over 2,000 other products from other companies. Ever heard of MCI, Sony, Ford, Rubbermaid, Danskin, GM, etc., etc., etc? If the Amway concept is really as bad as you all make it sound, why would these companies risk their reputations by affiliating themselves with Amway and letting 2 million Amway distributors market their products worldwide?

It seems to me that you can take all the bad stuff people say about the Amway business and apply it to the "conventional" businesses we all know and love. The Amway concept is proven - since 1959. I guess it's still considered revolutionary by most and as a result, is seen as threatening and something bad for you. But I suppose the farmers around the turn of the century felt the same way when the Industrial Revolution came about. Don't be so fearful of new ideas. Look at the most successful people today - they weren't lemmings. They're hailed as being mavericks and revolutionaries. What do you want to be? Let's face it, everybody can be a critic. Don't you think it's time we take responsibility for our own lives? Who said success was going to be easy, anyway? This is an OPPORTUNITY! If everyone could weather the storm, it wouldn't be what it is! Can you HONESTLY say you gave this business 100% commitment and effort?

Maybe the System didn't lie to you. Maybe you just lied to yourselves.

The price comparison should be honest. Apple should be compared only to an apple, not bananna!

To my knowledge, your price comparison of Amway core line products (not from Personal Shopper) with the competing products are not right, not fair and severly flawed !!!

For instance, Double X vs. centrum. Centrum is synthentic and Double X is from natural. The Double X contains PhytoFactor and Centrum does not. The coating of Double X is much much better than Centrum which ensure the full absorb of the vitemins. But Centrum does not. Remember, you may compare a Cadillac with a Lincon, but you can't compare a Cadillac with a Chevy. So, please go back and redo your work before you make any claim. There is a lot for you to study before you really claim something.

Don't guess!
Don't assume!

Do some calculation. If all 2.5 mln distributors joined Amway last year, each biz kits cost 100.00, how much total sale for Amway? Answer: 250 mln 3.7% of 1996 annual sales.!

Is adding distributors a dominant factors of their growth?

Do your homework before you speak out!!! If you have trouble to develop your biz, give me an email, I'll see if I can work with you.

The price mentioned in the articles is UNFAIRELY compared with it peers. Since those products are concentrated. Price should be compared on a diluted base!

PLEASE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I write this to everyone. It appears the Amway business is like the abortion issue. There are some who are for it, and some who are against it. Actually, in every aspect of life, there are some who are for it, some who are against it. The most important person you should listen to is yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will always hear the advantages and disadvantages of everything you choose to do in life. People will hound you until you do what they want you to do. Is your life really your life, are your decisions really your decisions, if what you do is someone else's decision? No!!! By all means, read the facts, research the advantages and disadvantages of belonging to the Amway business. It is your right to do just that. But do not stop until you are comfortable with what you learned. If you are still wondering, "Can this really work for me?", do some more research. You take chances every day of your life. Driving to work is taking a chance. Who knows what can happen. You will not know until you have done it. Do not let those who are in the business and those who are not in the business make the decison for you. Find out for yourself.

Remember, sometimes we respond to the negativity of things with more passion than we do positve things. I believe this is true, because I am in this part of the web site and I am an Amway distributor. I bypassed the positives of Amway to read about the negatives of it. What I have learned by reading the responses is there are people out there who found Amway is not for them.

That does not mean it is not for you. Remain neutral until you make your own decision. The only way you will remain being successful in life, is making your own decisions. A person who controls your mind, your time, your heart has their dreams come true. Personally, I choose to be an Amway distributor at this time in my life. I believe through hard effort, I will accomplish many of the things I want out of life. Who knows: in five years I might think otherwise. But at least I took the chance to find out for myself. Instead of thinking how much you will loose when taking the chance, think about what you will gain. It is much nicer to be around people who gain from life, then those who always feel they loose from life. I will be back in five years to tell you my story. But remember, don't take my word. Do it for yourself. Code name: "five years".

Sorry you weren't successful, perhaps you have some tapes you would like to sell. Send me a list and I will buy some or all.

Well, it's 4AM and I've just spent 3 hours perusing most of the info and recent comments about Amway. I've been a distributor for 10 years, some good and some not so good. Have been inactive for over a year except for buying products for self use. Haven't shown the plan in ages. But stumbling onto your site tonight has changed all that. I'm going to get back into it. During the time when I was active, we made a lot of friends in the business. I was never bitter because I didn't make a lot of money, and we didn't lose any of our pre-Amway friends either. I'm sure the business has changed since I last showed the plan so I'll have to start the learning process over. You ARE doing a great service with these pages. You've inspired me to get back in and build it again. Thank You.

Dear Sidney,

Like so many of the others, I too must add my comments to the melee. I was a distributor from August '95 to May '96, and in that time, I was quite amazed by the system. I was in the WWDB line, and found it to be quite overzealous. As a student, and hungry for knowledge of all types, what I found amazing is the lack of individuality. I have no problem with trying to ignore negativity, or associating with people you wish to emulate, what I have a problem with is: 1) telling me to stop watching T.V., read newspapers, or generally associate with everyday culture 2) to imply that since my family or friends did not get in, that I should think less of them, or stop listening to them (implied, not actually verbalized) 3) that I should live and breathe this business, and whatever was said to the contrary, that the only success is financial, the only true life is the Amway life (should I say...WWDB life) and my only true friends are fellow distributors. I also had a big problem with counseling upline. In matters of the business, sure. In my personal life, I don't think so. That having been said, I found my upline to be generally, and genuinely kind and nice people. I genuinely and sincerely hope they succeed in this business. I have been debating whether to renew my distributorship, but bypass the whole "system" shtick. I'd be happy selling the cheaper, good products only, and perhaps making a few hundred a month. If my upline had gone nuts on me selling, and less about sponsoring and the "system", I may have made money, and not spent into debt. If you print this, may I add a word or two of caution to all distributors of any stripe:

1) Do not mix religion or politics with the business - it turns off more people than you think. There is nothing wrong with being deeply religious, or actively political (as I am) but mixing the two with this business is bad karma

2) Emphasize, and teach merchandizing, selling, and retail. Get the people using, and selling the products (which SHOULD be what the business is all about) and when they feel confident enough about the products, and selling, then let them sponsor, with due caution.

3) Do not imply, coerce or force your downline to go to meetings, buy tapes, or go to the functions. Firstly, if I were the upline, actually having my downline making money via selling, and out there talking to people would be paramount. In regards to the books, I never restricted myself to only the books on the booklist, most of them being geared for the Christian anyway, and thus a turnoff for anyone else. Books, though, are great ways to learn!

4) Never try the curiosity approach, or in any way misrepresent what this is, a business to make some side money. Retirement is too distant to try and preach, and the thousands and hundreds are statistically inaccurate too. Most people would be content to have a little side money to invest or spend each month, and that is the most reasonable and accurate statement to make. Not mentioning Amway only fosters distrust, and for every 1 or 2 people that actually will understand why you used it, and what you meant, 10 people will be spreading the news like wildfire that some bozo tried to con them into some MLM, Amway. Also, contrary to what the diamonds and such will tell you, this business is not for everyone. Let no be no, and leave the people alone. Ask if they are interested in Amway, if yes, great, if no, great. Hassling will ruin your business.

5) If you are going to comment on this site, or on any criticism of the criticisms, make the effort to learn how to spell. It shouldn't be too hard, and makes everyone involved in Amway look like uneducated hillbillies (no offense to any decent hillbillies out there). Also, leave out the swearing, emotional outbursts, and constant comments that Sidney, or anyone else who has genuine concerns about Amway, are losers, broke losers, or mean spirited people. Your dream is your dream, and if you are so weak and fragile that you allow any comment to ruin you, you are misleading yourself. You must disseminate, and analyze every comment, every aspect of this business, good or bad. I'd be more scared if I only saw good comments. I'd also be less of a businessman if I ignored the negative or skeptical comments. Learn how to critique evidence. Use your mind!!!

6) Stop mimicking your upline. I can spot a prospecting line by the third word. If I can, everyone else can too. Use your own words, opinions, and phrases. If you don't, anyone who took more time to analyze Amway than you did can shred you apart. I can quickly answer any questions about Amway, because after I let my membership slide, I researched it with zeal, slowly reading this site. I did find a few products worth selling, so I might just concentrate on the retail aspect. It would be well worth your time to figure out what is morally and ethically right for you, not just what you can get away with. Remember, omitting something is just as much of a lie or a coverup, as false statements. That's why the curiosity approach is a bad way to go. It's also a great way to waste time. If they have a problem with Amway, fine, if I can tell them what I know, I will, if not, i'll find someone else. No set patterns, lines or gimmicks. Oh yeah, quit with the fake it til you make it attitude. It's as obvious as the Sun.

If you had the patience to read all that, I should just say it is a funny business, not quite what amway, or the WWDB tells you it is, and not quite what the "anti" amway people say it is. It's also more what you make of it. Obviously, if you can't sell the products, it would be a monumental waste of time to sponsor people. It would also be unethical. I may rejoin the ranks to make a little profit, knowing that there are many unethical con-people out in the Amway world, and many good honest hard-working people. As for this site, it should be required reading to any new distributor. I don't know why you have done all this, but I think you may be doing a great deal towards helping people, not only who are not interested in the business, but who are as well. That having been said, could you send me, Sidney, an idea of what products you don't mind, or what people have said are quite useful? I am trying to figure out what I could sell, and what I shouldn't (I didn't find the toothpaste too beneficial, nor the microwave meals). Have you heard anything about the Vitamins? I am interested in them, but the high price makes me skeptical, and I need evidence from the everyday world on them, not just the amway promos. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. I would like to know whether you think there is any benefit to a proper retail- Amway business? Thank you for your time,

I have been an Amway distributor for two years and have purchased these materials that you have been putting down. You must not have listened to the tapes or read any of the books that you have mentioned, or you would not have written this page. Who are you anyway? If someone wants to better themselves and have found without question that the books by Napolean Hill and others along with tapes by Les Brown and many of the Diamonds, not to mention going to functions and have the opportunity to hear great speakers like Norman Schwartzkoff and George Bush who most of us would not have the opportunity to meet or see. Why not bash Zig Ziegler or any of the other speakers who make a living motivating others to go further than they thought possible. I hope that you find satisfaction in what your doing and I look forward to seeing your book on the self of my nearest bookstore. However as they say "no one has ever erected a statue of a critic" or bought their books for that matter. OH well I guess we will never get to read yours. All I can tell you is I'm going DIAMOND in spite of narrow minded ill mannered bigots like you.

P.S won"t see you on skid row.

most of your material over 5 years is irrelevant. Replace it with stuff more up to date. thanks.

ps--by the way, it seems you've done a good job on the letters (that I saw) keeping things balanced. Best luck to ya' in whatever you do (making more money in more businesses with more fun than I thought I could. I do other businesses outside of Amway)

Amway is being launched in the Philippines in April 1997. According to a recent Amway presentation, they have already processed 1 million pre-applications for membership. If this is true, this will have a very adverse effect on my home country's emerging and hard-earned economic progress. Do you have any suggestions on how to counteract their propaganda blitz - to at least make available "the other side of the coin" - Amway's untold story and give millions of unwitting victims a dose of reality before they get inexorably sucked into this wolrd-class scam? Thank you very much, by the way, for the tremendous effort you have put into this very informative site. Best regards.

I don't know you, you don't know me. Yet the first thing I see is : You are Broke Negative Dream Stealing Loser number ,etc. Who the hell are you to tell me what or who I am ? Maybe I'm NOT broke, or negative, or dream stealing, or a loser. I am CERTAINLY not a loser. But it appears to me that you are. If you can't stand the world having an opinion different than yours, GET OFF the planet. If you don't have enough courtesy to treat those who visit your web site with respect, FUCK OFF. My address does not accept e-mail, so don't bother. You don't impress me, your web page does not impress me, and your whining about Amway and World Wide does not impress me. You don't get it, and you never will.

I wanted to give you a "Where Are They Now" update on my former upline Emerald and his greedy wife. Can't risk naming names, but they are toadies in the Wish We Didn't Bendover (WWDB) organization of Scamway fascists. Looks like they finally learned after six years in Amway what I knew from day one - that their upline Double Diamond is the biggest hypocrite in the business.

Seems that they weren't quite cutting it on their way to Diamond, so their upline hero Double Diamond Gregory B. Dork'em (name altered to reflect the man's character) told them to ship a bunch of product downline to inflate their PV, and then collect the money over time! Jeez, I thought this was a cash business with no accounts receivable! In essence here, Mr. Dork'em advised his toadies to fake their PV so as to qualify for Diamond. I wonder of Scamway knows it was defrauded of the benefits and honors they extended to the happy, greedy couple.

Now, since this fake-ass Diamondship was nothing but a house of cards, it has collapsed on itself, and our two little burbling toadies are the proud rulers of a stagnant Emerald business that's been flat for at least two years. I noticed also that they adopted an infant girl a couple of years ago, but this is no surprise, since my wife and I had always suspected that the greedy ice queen had a freezer compartment in place of a uterus.

Sidney,

I've thought about that term "Amway job" so many times over the last few years. Toward the end I started to realize that it is like you are the keeper of a hen house with the door open. You will be running from one side of the hen house to the other trying to keep all the hens in. And this will go on forever. Even if you could "go diamond" you would still never be able to quit because you have to make sure now that no one else ever quits. Running here, there and everywhere

trying to motivate people, lie through your teeth and basically manipulate people into staying in. No Stress? I think not, 100% free time? Where? They

get you so worked up you don't see the real picture. Our Diamond visited us many times and we weren't even in his front line. Considering the amount of people you have to sponsor (so they say) to actually go diamond, that's a lot of people you have to run around for. Where's the retirement?

Sidney - Your page is a treasure! I have just a few comments regarding the mail you receive from the mindless amway proponents. I notice that most of the obscenities on your page are from these wonderful Christian amway people.

Also, why, if they love it so much and are doing so well, are they even visiting your page? And why won't even one of them just state what his or her monthly NET income from amway is? And when will these supposedly bright, successful people learn to spell and learn the basic rules of English grammar? I am also appalled at the ignorance of virtually all subjects, particularly economics and world events, that is displayed in their letters.

One young man wrote at length about the 70 million baby boomers on social security! I wonder if he realizes that the so-called "baby boomers" have yet to reach retirement age. As a baby boomer myself, at the ripe old age of 45, I can assure him that I am not on social security, nor do I plan to be for at least 20 years. However, even if social security is not available when I am ready, I will retire comfortably - not with the help of amway, of course.

What kind of people are these, anyway, who measure success in life by how much money a person makes? I would feel sorry for most of them, if they weren't so vindictive and hostile. They are really sad!

Unfortunately, these people have their hooks into my elderly widowed mother, sucking her dry, salivating over her pension and social security. I think (hope) that she is beginning to see the light since she has made approximately $17 in the year and a half that she has been in. She is beginning to see that the products are both inferior and over-priced. And for those of you who think these are quality products, my advice to you is - just try the toilet paper !! If that doesn't convince you, the toothpaste, (if you can use it without gagging), will. I really think that there will be a special place in hell for those people who have defrauded widows and widowers and I suspect that a lot of them will be former amway distributors!!

Keep up the good work, Sidney, I also believe there will be a special place in heaven for those who, like you, have unselfishly provided help and comfort to their fellow man. Bless you!

Hi,

I only wish my friend who is totally absorbed in Amway would take the time to really read your site. He is aware of its existence but I guess the head in the sand approach works best for him. You know most people who think about setting up a business for themselves research the pros and the cons. Amway faithfuls suggest that you look only at the pros because negative thinking is stinking thinking. Why do people not make more educated decisions in life? This friend of mine is a faithful church goer, I am not. Yet, I find myself preaching morals to him. Imagine!

By the way, I understand that Albania's civil war is in part due to the collapse of pyramid schemes. Is Amway very big in that country. I also understand that the newly liberated communist countries are suckers for Amway. Is this true? I guess desperate times for desperate people call for desperate measures.

Dear Sidney, I found youd page and now I linked it, but here in Italy I know a different world of Amway. I started trying this "job" after 6 years of doubts. In this time a friend of mine (really friend) left his job and now he's working full time with many satisfactions. He's a normal person and isn't different from when he started. In the meetings in Italy, there are normal people and no one told nothing about watching or not television. I'm sure that is not simple as explained, but I'm also sure that is not impossible making money with this job.

Hi Sidney,

I "emailed" you before with a question to which you sent a prompt repsonse- thanks. My story is typical: signed up, spent lotsa bucks on tapes,and tools. Turned my house over to Amway as they say. Then one day I realized that this so-called people-helping business is really a people-exploiting business. Every time I called a friend or acquaintance to try to get them to see the plan, I felt like I was doing something dirty to them. Couldn't stomach it anymore so I went "inactive". One of these days when I have more time I'll send you my in-depth analysis of what I think about this whole Amway thing. (nothing new, just maybe a little different perspective). Keep on doing what you do Sid. By the way, I saw this kid's coloring book awhile back entitled "when we're diamonds" Told a little story about how the whole family will live in the lap of luxury with yachts, pools, airplanes etc. My God, they're even after the kids with their brainwashing B.S.

First of I am sorry that people tell you that they have no remorse if you go to hell, that is not a very christian attitude. I am supporter of Amway, I just started in the business, and I was asked not to spend the money for a starter kit, since I made it clear that I did not have the money, the person helped me to get started, he did not push me to call all my friends and get them into this fantastic business, but he gave me some catalogs I could give them and if interested in ordering they could do that, and if wanting to get more infor about the business I could help them with that, this is not a business to try to take the neighboer with the pants down and then take their money, but to try to get people to shop from Amway instead of paying the middleman (stores).

I am not into name calling since everyone has their own oppinion, if we did'nt we would all be in Amway and successful:)

I'd like to thank you for having your web site out there. My husband and I were suckered into a World Wide Dream Builders meeting this past weekend. When they finally mentioned the word Amway, I knew exactly what we had been brought into. My family had tried Amway TWICE, both times, obviously, quite unsuccessfully.

My mother related to me how, in order to keep up on orders from customers she DID have to keep at least a small inventory of products. But Amway would change the packaging alomost every 3-6 months, thus making her "stash" obsolete, and unsellable. This, obviously, is only one of the many problems with the Amway circle.

I'm hoping to get our friend who invited us to the meeting to access your website. I don't know if he will, and he very likely wouldn't even pay it any heed at this point, even if he did actually read any of it. But in any case, once again, thank you for having this information out on the web. It lets people like me get both sides of the story (just about any story), and helps us make much more informed decision.

Needless to say, my husband and I WILL NOT be joining Amway OR World Wide Dream Builders.

Thank you.

Hi Sidney,

I am a single person and I go for the personal dating adds on occasion. This one time after I had placed an add in one of the local publications, I received a response from what seemed like a nice lady, her name was *. We talked a couple of times and found that we had some common interests and decided to meet for dinner. She had my work number and she called me at work to confirm the date, she then mentioned she wanted me to meet some of her business associates. At this point I thought "Wow, she must think highly of me in order to introduce me to the people she works with."

We met for dinner, she was quite attractive and I was impressed. We rushed through dinner, she said that we don’t want to be late for "The business party". We get to her friends place (nice place in the Livermore Hills) and the first thing I noticed was an easel set up in their living room. At this point the warning lights were going off in my head, what is wrong with this picture? I needed to use the restroom and the host directed me to their bathroom. As I entered into the bathroom I realized I was in trouble, there were Amway products all over the place!

Just for the sake of clarification let me point out the unfortunate situation I placed myself in; I just had dinner with an attractive lady (bait), we both rode in her car to a nice house ten miles outside of town (the hook has been lodged in my throat and now I am being reeled in), and I am now faced with the choice of either telling them what I think of Scamway and walking (in the rain) back to my truck or sitting through their "Road to Financial Independence" sales pitch. I knew there was no way they could brainwash me into being "assimilated" into their collective, so I chose to stay.

Including the host, there were seven other people in attendance. At first I thought this was good to have the other people there, it would be easy for me to be the silent one in the crowd. That assumption was also another mistake I had made. As I am sitting there, biting my tongue and wanting so badly to point out that Amway is for losers, I am realizing that each one of the seven other people have all been previously assimilated by the Amway collective! And even worse than that, they are all giving me a verbal gangbanging on how great Amway is and the only I will succeed in life is to follow them on the "Road to Financial Independence."

As the lecture was coming to an end, I was feeling somehow like I had been violated or victimized by some strange type of female date rape. Being the typical single male, the main thing on my mind are single females and of course this weakness is what placed me in this situation. At the end of the lecture my "date" put her arm around me and cuddled next to me, pressing her nicely shaped D-cup sized breast into my shoulder, her low cut top now exposing major amounts of cleavage, she looks right into the eyes with this "cute puppy dog" expression on her face and asked me "Would you like be an Amway distributor with me?" Of course, I look her right in the cleavage and say "No thanks, I am not interested." She didn’t say a single word as she drove me back to my truck.

Although there was no physical damage done, I am now much more cautious about blind dates.

Please feel free to post this message in order to warn other single men.

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