### Amway: The Untold Story

## Your Comments, Part 34

(5/97-6/97)

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Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.

This is a long file...I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.

[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]

``

Greetings form North Carolina. Just a short note...enjoyed reading your notes on the Amway Phenomenon. My husband & I bought the whole ball of wax (or should I say Soap?) We were in for 2 1/2 years. We went to every function, bought the tapes, read the books, listened to our upline...listened a little too closely...we were totally BRAINWASHED. To make a long story short, we were served foreclosure papers on our home and ended up filing Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Our upline PSDD actually encouraged our group to do whatever it took to be at the major functions...including letting the house payment go. After all, we were going to be RICH!!!

My husband had to suffer tremendous male ego bashing from the upline, not to mention the heartbreak of discovering that the so-called friends we had made in the business who were going to walk the beaches of the world with us wanted nothing to do with us after we became QUITTERS.

The one good thing that did come out of the experience was the fact that we came to know Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Saviour at one of the Sunday Worship services at a Amway function. He's the only friend who'll always be there.

Thanks, and we promise to spread the truth along with you.

Thanks for the other side. now I have some info to help me make a decision. I really didn't think that Amway had great products. I have used some of them with not exactly stellar results. The person asking me to join must have had 300 tapes and books in the back of his car.

Thank you for the site. I wanted to add my name to the list, as it were. When I first attended the information meetings, Amway looked pretty good, even spiritually sound. As I got a little deeper, though, I found that I was being pressured by my entire upline to buy an endless series of tapes, being told that I couldn't possibly be successful without them. I also discovered that the entire focus is on recruitment, a far cry from the philosophy being espoused on people attending the info sessions for the first time. As a matter of fact, I figured out that if I were to follow my upline's formula, I would be spending approximately $200 a month on tapes, meetings, seminars, with zero return on this investment. There is no incentive to buy Amway's products either. Far from the promise of saving money by buying direct from the distributor, their big philosophy, I found that if I were to buy any of their products I would be paying substantially above what they would cost at any nearby retail outlet. After I decided not to pursue this any further, I was harrassed by my upline to the point where I almost resorted to getting an unlisted number. My Direct Distributor even went to the point of saying that I was not going to be successful in any aspect of my life due to my bad attitude towards Amway, and this year was going to be a bad year for me. Au contraire, I'm working with a balanced budget, have devoted my energies to quality of life issues, and am much better off for it. My advice for anyone considering this program: Ask yourself what is really imporant to you, what you'd like to accomplish in life, and remember you can set goals and attain them. But pumping money into this fraudulent organization may keep you from becoming who you were really meant to be. Be careful of Scamway.

Dear Sir:

I thank you for your site.....2 days ago a couple that I just met and bought some hay from, all of a sudden have me listening to tapes and looking at videos that I really have no interest in and did not tell me it was Amway until today when I went back for more hay......all that was said was that I seemed like someone they would like to help add to my income and they would like to intrduce me to a way .....did not mention Amway only that it was "multi-level marketing". My instincts tell me NO! and I will tell them thanks but no thanks! Just wanted to say THANK YOU fo your site . Confirms what I felt. I'll tell them not for me.

One question I have for you and your viewers:

"If everyone takes the advice of failures, would anyone ever succeed in anything?"

If all the young atheletes in this country took the advice of Football, Basketball, Baseball, or Hockey players that gave up and quit, would these sports continue to even exist? To take the recommendations of some completely unknown stranger about a business that is very large and complex, is like believing that you can find the "Meaning of Life" in a Cracker-Jack box.

I'm not sure what the true purpose of this website is. Is it to help keep the common man from doing something different? No one ever told me that I would succeed in everything I set out to do. Is this site meant to guarantee people who wish to try the Amway business and marketing plan that they WILL FAIL? Or is it simply a collection of comments compiled by people who have quit Amway (and probably hundereds of other things in their lives) and hope to succeed in something (like keeping others from failing)? I understand most people like to help, but are you asking yourself

"Who am I actually helping by publishing these comments? Myself? Or am I making those who have failed feel better about being stupid enough in the first place to try Amway?"

I've heard a statement that sums up the group of ex-Distributors who are sending comments to this site, which goes a little something like this:

"If you were stupid enough to get in Amway in the first place, quitting only makes what you've done look worse! The only people who fail in the Amway business are those that quit. This business works! The people that quit, do not."

You should actually rename your website: "Quitters Never Win!" or "Run with the masses, and Remain Mediocre" or "Either Lead the Pack, or the View is All the Same!" or "Failures Anonymous"

It would be an interesting poll to see how many people that send comments to this site, that have quit other things in their life. Perhaps you can have a check-list of other financial vehicles in which your viewers have participated and quit. Or better yet, have a list of MLMs (and the like) which have ever existed, and how many viewers have been part of them. That would really reflect the insight among your viewing audience.

I welcome any response to this e-mail.

As I have surfed the net, I have found a lot of untrue junk about Amway. This business is definately one of the best free enterprise systems on earth. I have done several studies on this business, and I was truly profound at what I found. This business has changed several people's lives in a good way. There are countless number of instances where a person who was barely making a living, and then introduced to the business, and are now millionaires. All it takes is a strong dream and hard work. True, the big bucks don't start coming in right away, you must work for it. The quote, "Where there is a will, there is a way," is truly a great quote for this business. The people who have gone publically about there dislikes of Amway are just ignorant and arrogant and know nothing about what they are saying. Also, I am sure that jealousy plays a large role. When these people who don't have a dream,or try to destroy others put down the millionaires that are talking, they are just jealous because they know they won't get there because they won't even try. Further, I just crack up inside when somebody who is making in a year is putting down somebody who is making that and possibly double, in a day. As I have said, I have done a ton of research on Amway myself, and when I am of age, I will join and get to work as soon as possible. I want to be able to claim what tons of other people in the business claim, "I have never worked for a soul, but myself." You may be surprised that the person, me, who just wrote this is only 14, but I well know what I'm talking about.

Right now in the business, there are over 2 million members, and is also on the biggest and most successful businesses on earth. Soon, I will be proud to say that I am in the business.

Before I put a lot of time into researching through your site I would like to know more about your background.

What is your business/job?

Why do you have it out for AMWAY? They appear to be a very reputable company from all the business journals.

[I asked this person to tell me which reputable business journals had stated that an Amway distributorship was a good investment of one's time and mmoney. No response. Big surprise.]

I find your web sight to be very interesting and informative! My husband and I were approached by a neighbor and asked if we were interested in how he had turned his business into a successful enterprise. Of course we were interested. Our neighbor has a graphics business and told us he could show us how he had done so well with a virtual mall. Although we are generally very cautious by nature, we decided to hear what our neighbor had to say.

Once seated in our neighbor's home, he began a lecture on the seven characteristics of highly successful people taken from J.Paul Getty's book. This was certainly not what my husband and I had expected. After going through all the characteristics, our neighbor then began to discuss a system that we immediately recognized as a multi-level marketing "scheme". We were polite to our neighbor and listened patiently for two and a half hours until the end when our neighbor sheepishly admitted the company was Amway.

In the past we have heard unfavorable comments about the company from the media and from friends who had started to sell Anway. We tried to look at the information our neighbor gave us open-mindedly, but upon reading the recent Amway Business Review, we realized everything we had heard was true.

According to the Review, the average gross income for "active" distributors is only $65. Not the $1400-$3400 we were told by our neighbor. In addition, we were told by our neighbor that the real money was found in selling distributorships to others. However, according to the Review, you have to first be selling $15,800 worth of products per month for six months before you are eligible to become a direct distributor. The company also states in its Review that only 1% of all active distributors qualify for direct distribution.

I realize that people who sell Amway would say only 1% reaches this level because most people are incapable of succeeding, however, 1% in any business is not a good business to get into. I find it hard to believe that only 1% is successful because everyone else "just doesn't have what it takes". What about other private business owners who are successful with their company yet can not sell Amway.

In addition, my husband and I were told we could save money using Amway products. I have never tried their products, however, I have compared their prices to those in a price book I keep and find Amway products to be high.

I don't deny anyone who gains some sense of hope from Amway, however, I feel there are other ways of finding hope such as a Bible. I find it ridiculous for people to say Amway is a Christian company (which it may be) and in the same letter feel that you ought to pay dearly and painfully for your views and your web site. Instead of spending so much of their time being angry with someone expressing their views, maybe they should pick up their Bible and read. God does not make people "pay" painfully for their views.

I agree some people do make money from Amway. Our neighbor does. I feel though, anyone who does decide to purchase an Amway business should have all the information to make an informed decision and not feel pressured into making the wrong one for them. Thank you for having your web site.

Steve-

What a pathetic sack of shit you are. Why don't you get a life of your own and stop tearing down the lives of others? What are you trying to prove with several hundred pages of anti-Amway websites? Are you so devoid of attention from others that this is the only way you have found to be noticed? You really are pathetic. It's a sad comment on our times that the internet (freedom of speech) has given a voice to such a small minded and vicious cretin like yourself. Why don't you go get a job and do something with your life? There are lots of issues out there that need attention. Stop pouring yours down this stupid rathole. Grow up!

[When I didn't bother to respond (maybe I was supposed to have called him a "doody head") he followed up with yet more brilliant repartee...]

See. Not only are you a sack of shit, but you're a coward, too. You don't even have the courage to defend yourself. You're worthless, Steven. Get a life.

This is some pretty discouraging stuff...but I can only say..."Yep! I've seen it!"

I got tangled up with Dexter Yagers' downline group around 8 or 9 years ago. At the time, I was doing moderately well in insurance and financial products sales. What got me interested in Yagers "NBOE" (Network of Business Opportunity Entrepreneurs) was that I saw in many of my clients a real need for greater income and control over their lives.

Hell, I felt like I needed that myself! I was talking to doctors, dentists, and other professional and business people who needed additional insurance, knew they needed additional insurance, but couldn't sit down and write a check for $200 or $300 premium because they didn't have the money! Believe it or not, this is more often the case than many people think. Often a big part of the problem is this little human tendancy to spend more than we make!...The solution it turns out, is nothing more complicated than some financial counseling and a measure of self-discipline...It is not getting involved in another business that just saps more time and energy when there is often very little left over to give.

At any rate, it was quite a learning experience. I was involved for several months and then I got out of it. And yes, when I dropped out my sponsor called me a, "wimp and a negative dream stealer!". (ha ha!)

That several months was a very expensive learning experience for me too.

Fortunately I was single at the time, but it basically cost me a good relationship that was going on when I got involved. It also cost me a measure of self-respect, (which I've since recovered very nicely, thank you!) and measure of credibility, (which, too, I believe I've recovered).

Others have not been so fortunate, apparently.

However, my involvement with Amway and the Dexter Yager network basically, also, cost me a developing career in insurance and annuities and led me into a whole new phase of my career as truck owner-operator. (All I can say is that I felt like getting out of town for a while...)

The funny thing is...I've made more money in 2 days while an owner-operator than I did all the time I was with Yager's group OR Amway!!!

Now I have a new business I'm engaged in...Internet web pages & sites, the development & production of...for paying clients! (You can check out my site at )

It may take a little while before this thing really gets going, and right now I'm doing some stuff real cheap just to get the work...but, it's legitimate! I'm also bringing more in than is going out! In fact this has been profitable from about the 3'rd week, albeit marginally, and I still haven't quite given up my "day job".

The thing is...at the time I was involved with Amway and the Yager network thing, although I came to the realization in about 3 months that the whole thing, at least as represented by the Yager group was a "scam" (ashamed it took me that long) I still felt that, basically, Amway represented a legitimate business opportunity, that it was just the Dexter Yager people who were "nuts" and that someday, under a different line of sponsorship, I might get involved with it again.

But now I'm wondering...?

Recently I've talked to a couple from * who have been involved with the Amway business for quite some time. They seem to be doing well. In fact, I believe they are "Emeralds". I've talked to them a few times...gone to a couple of meetings...and almost thinking about getting back into the Amway business under them.

But I'm not real sure. They do not seem to promote this "tools" thing, per se, and so far the only thing they seem to push is the straight Amway material. But, then, on the other hand, they did send me an email the other day wanting my wife and I to come to some function in Cedar Rapids where their "Diamond" was going to be.

The downline that * & * are part of is called "Network 21". The head of which seems to be a couple by the name of Jim & Nancy Dornan from San Diego, CA. (related to "B-1 Bob" Dornan?). Looking over the current Amway catalog, it looks like the retail prices in this thing are now pretty much right in line with what one would pay at Walmart or Target for the same merchandise (unlike was the case a few years ago)...so I'm wondering???

Frankly I don't need to divert a lot of time and focus from my developing business designing and producing web pages & sites and I'm still trucking some, part-time, but * says he will be perfectly happy to talk to any prospective distributers I come up with and they don't seem to be put out by my attitude that mainly I just want to retail merchandise and services!...We live in a pretty much rural area of north-east * and I think I could find customers around here for a lot of stuff...its 25 miles to the closest shopping of any consequence. And my wife has a nice little Avon business going with lots of customers and makes a decent profit from that, besides.

I realize this is getting kind of lengthy, but so far I haven't encountered any references to the Dornans on your site, and I'm wondering if you've heard anything about them. On the other hand I follow the rule that "...if it don't feel right, watch out!" pretty closely. I'm getting that feeling again but wondering if it's just the syndrome of having been stung once before. Are there any legitimate lines in Amway, or has the company become completely dominated by the "Dexter Yagers'" and "Bill Britts'" and others of that ilk.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION ON AMWAY, MY WIFE AND I WRE CONFRONTED BY A AMWAY RECUITER, WE WENT TO A AMWAY COVENTION, MY WIFE AND I ALMOST JOIN BUT THIS LITTLE VOICE TOLD ME TO RESEARCH THE COMPANY, AND WHERE ANY PLACE BETTER TO RESEARCH THINGS IS ON THE INTERNET, I FOUND YOUR WEB PAGE AND IT WAS THE INFORMATION I WAS LOOKING FOR THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THE TIME AND EFFORT INTO IT TO HELP OUT PEOPLE FROM FALLING INTO A SCAM, YOU PROBBALY SAVED ME AND MY WIFE FROM A LOT OF HEADACHES, AND SAVING OUR MONEY. AND THANKS AGAIN!!!

I've noticed as I've read through a few of these responses that the Amway people sound A LOT more bitter and angry than the non-Amway folks. Could it be that the Amway people sound so defensive because THEY'RE MAKING NO MONEY?! Dreams are great, but they don't pay the bills. Wake up, brainwashed drones.

You need to get a hobby, or something useful to do. Home shopping is the way of the future and Amway is going to be and already is a leader. Get used to it, and get a job!

[I love this one. If I don't spend hours of my time and hundreds of dollars providing this person with information he could look up himself if he really wanted to, then I "lack integrity." You have to give some people credit for coming up with creative ways to ignore realities that they're too insecure to handle.]

Mr. Schwartz,

Thank you for your web site on Amway. I only ask one request: If all these "opinions" stated herein, within your website are somewhat true, my request is: for you to please find, copy (if possible), and send me the documented, hard copy facts to your "in depth" research on the Amway "opportunity". I am not asking you to print information

off your website and send it to me, but I am asking (politely), for you to please send me "hard copy" FACTS, on your research concerning the Amway "opportunity". The facts that I would like to see in "hard copy" form are: legal documents concerning lawsuits ( in all states, this information is "public" information ), I'm sure you have some, or have proper connections to the information; legal documentation to "fraud" practices involving "motivational material" within the "sales force" continuing "education"; legal

documentation of "fraud" practices involving Amway "distributors" and their "misleading" representation of the Amway "opportunity; and finally, some of your "credible" research documentation concerning your position against the Amway "opportunity", and reasons why.

The reason for my request is simple: I have had an opportunity to be involved within the Amway "opportunity" and would like to have all "factual" views concerning the "opportunity" before I further my interests with Amway.

In return to your compliance to my requests, and IF all information is found to be "crediable" and deemed useful in making a "non-biased" decision against being involved in the Amway "opportunity", I will give you all my support in any way that I can to help you in your "quest" to inform the world of the "truth" of Amway. I find this a good agreement, because I have been involved and interested with Amway for their "opportunity" ( to make money ) for over three years.

I will inform you that IF there is no response to my requests with "credible" documentation, or NO response whatsoever, I will deem you and your website "uncredible", "unfair", "biased", "demeaning", "un-useful", "damaging", and above all other aspects, the FACT will remain: "That in God's eyes, you and your website will always lack "INTEGRITY"." ( and let this statement dwell in your spirit )

I sent this to Peter Sommer's page too, but thought you might be interested. The part about posting my e-mail address still applies, but feel free to include my name if you like. I've no problem 'going public' with this if you desire to post it.

Begin included here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Let me start out by saying that I don't care if you post this with my full name and where I'm from (Rochester NY), but please remove my e-mail address. I'm using a company mail account as you can see clearly in the address and they're really quite good about 'looking the other way' for using e-mail and web browsers for personal use so long as work gets done on time. I'd like to keep it that way. Feel free to write me yourself if you feel the desire or need though. I'm just concerned about some bozo flaming my company because of my views. I like my job and it's fairly sweet paycheck quite well, thank you.

After reading your site and several others about Amway I now have a much better understanding of just what was going on inside Mr X's mind as he has tried to recruit me for the last 9 months. I've been buying things from him retail because I just plain like a few of the Amway products on thier own merits. I'd figured a few things out on my own but you added to that quite a bit. You have helped explain his reactions to me when I apporached him with a differant MLM last week. I need to degress here for a minute to set context. I'm not a big MLM person myself. A few are honest companies trying to make an honest profit in an area where there is alot of room for abuse. I personally recommend caution and alot of investigation. Don't ever go in beleiving you'll make that 10K per month extra most talk about. The first criteria I look at is 'can you make a good economic return on this product line retailing it?' If the answer is no, you are pretty much assured that somebody is being exploited so somebody else can make money.

Well, I'm looking for a short term income supplament and found an MLM where it looks reasonable to make a good return for the work involved directly retailing what they sell. I know several people making returns of $50 per hour invested after only three months who are doing NO sponosing, only retail. While meeting Mr. X for lunch last week to place a product order I brought this up to him. He is an engineer like me and 3 pay grades above me at the least. My pay a quite good by any standard and 3 pay grades in the company means at least 10k more than I get with 18k more probable, yet he's clearly living on a shoe string budget at all times. His reaction was startling to say the least. First I made issue of the fact that I wasn't doing Amway because I didn't beleive you could get a good return on your time until you've invested alot more effort than I was ready to give it. Then I pointed out to him that I though I had no negative impressions of Amway or his intentions to make money at it, here was a way to get a good return to help him now when he clearly needed help. This would likely help him until Amway started to pay off for him. (I clearly hadn't read your page yet) He reacted like I'd hit him! Without even getting any more information he launched into this 'Ain't nobody but Amway even done MLM honestly, EVERBODY else is a lying thief out to steal your chance at making it in Amway" dailoge. I'd researched this companies ethics pretty heavily so when I could counter that with documentable 3rd party referances he got ever stranger. He went into things like being sure that the company is big enough to handle class action law suits and stand up to 'government sponsored negative information campaigns'. He then went right into a 'sell me and sign me on the spot line' and even pulled a copy of the sign up contract out of his notebook for me!! I brushed that off with the intent of ending the meeting and he really hit me with a ringer! As many of you know Amway people frequently push the Amway = christian line of crapola. Well, being an active christian myself for many years I had quickly used a little bible to kill that one. (you know, the bible? That thing Amway christians all own but are told never to read?) Well, he actually pulled a handwritten list of local churches out of his notebook and demanded I tell him what church I went to!! And yes, it was on his list! He stopped right there and refused to talk anymore about it. Since that time he has refused to return e-mail messages, phone calls or otherwise aknowledge that I even exist!

A number of fundamental type christian churches in the part of the country are becoming increasingly aware that Amway is using them as part of thier control scams. At least locally many of them are starting to include alot of teaching on the real issues of Amway and how it DOESN'T agree with the bible in the form of studies of what the bible says about honest business practices. Most, or at least none I know of, name Amway directly, but you can't sit through the studies and go back to a rally beleiveing that Amway is inherantly christian. Mine is one of those churches. Apparently Amway people know this now and are warning their people which churches are doing this and telling them to stay away! I wonder if this is a local thing or if it's gone national yet? I have noticed that while encouraging distributors to become 'christian' they always seem to have rallies locally that allow for maximum conflict with church services. It's as if they're saying that you should get religion on the outside, but by no means let it sink in! Don't do that at ANY COST! End included here>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A follow-up note.

Mr X approached me several days ago clearly thinking that I was worth one more atempt at 'enlightening'. He tried to give me a couple tapes to 'prove the misrepresentations to be the lies that they are' so that I could 'be free to reach my dreams'. Note that to this point I had said nothing at all negative about Amway to him. All I'd said was that it wasn't something I personally wanted to do last time we talked. Now that I was armed with a little information from a couple sites like yours I asked him what the tapes cost and how much money he thought his upline made from the tpaes. He acted shocked that I would think anybody would could 'make money from a $6.00 tape with all the costs incurred in distrobution'. I pointed out that the MLM I'm currently doing sold thier tapes for a wopping $1.00 per tape and claimed to be making money from them at this price. They also have an 800 # to report overcharging to to prevent people from making enough money from tape and book sales to matter. This did not inspire Mr X to anything that could be mistaken for good will even in a dark alley while falling down drunk. He began to attack my 'unrealistic and stunted dreams' of only wanting an income supplament and implied I was a fool because I like engineering and plan to stay with it. He noted that we clearly couldn't do business because I have set some 'unreasonable and foolish limits' on myself with the intent of dooming myself to failure. Those limits include things like quarterly reviews of my time investment and net return per hour after all expenses and taxes. If it falls below a certain point or begins to require more than 15 to 20 hours per month to maintain, I'm getting out. They also include refusing to view friends and family as potential customers or sponsors. I guess that's just me being stupid and foolish. My non-robotic wife must be a fool too because she agrees with me on those limits. It's absolutely great to have a wife who not only can but does think for herself. I'll take that over an Ambot wife and $1,000,000 a year any day!

Steve Schwartz,

Keep up the great work! Know where I can buy or borrow a copy of Phil Kerns' book? I've checked libraries, done internet searches, etc with no success.

Sounds like this would be an excellent text to make available on the net. An example of another out of print cult book that's nearly impossible to obtain (except on the net) is The Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/bfm/

By the way, you probably have a feel for this - do cult organizations attempt to buy up all available copies of disparaging works?

BTW # 2, please keep updating the P&G saga - great stuff!

Thanks for any info you can provide on the referenced book,

Thanks for showing me that there are negative assholes abound in this world, look in the mirror and smile.

I'm writing this message to all of you, my "collegues" who run a web space about MLM, mainly because after having read many of the responses you got, I think it would be useful to point out my humble point of you:

I'm Italian, as you know, and European as well, and it surely appears to me that the American "Puritan Spirit" is something that is at the basis of what both MLM-enthusiasts and "disgruntled" think and say. The strongest argument most of distributors use is: "Try to find something else that will allow you to retire in 5 years". It seems that if you fail to find something like that then it means Amway is the best opportunity.

Life is not a "do or die" matter. I'm 34, married and planning a baby, have a job. My income is less than $30.000, my wife's $15.000, but life is different, here. I can afford two holydays a year (went to Egypt and USA, and I'm going to Zanzibar next September), live in my own house, have a small, but confortable car. Enjoy skiing, horse riding. I live an honest life, and, above all, I FEEL FREE.

I'm not interested in spending my life on the beaches of the world and have tremendous respect in people who serve me drinks when it happens I go there. I think that common sense, education, love and health are the biggest capital we have. Why should I aim to became rich? I'm fine, this way, because I have something to do in my spare time! Because I HAVE spare time.

I think that MLM is rubish, but that's not the only reason why I do not partecipate in it. Running one's own business is not at all the only way to achieve wealth and money. It's surely the only way to became rich, but it does not mean you'll succeed EVEN IF YOU DO YOUR BEST. C'mon, kids, "If you really want it, you'll have it" is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.

Enjoy what you have.
Try to improve yourself.
Behave so that you have a good opinion of yourself.

There's nothing wrong with a job. Some billion people are doing fine with it. Surely more than the one tryin' to do it with MLM.

Thanks for your time.

Sidney:

I read an article in the El Paso times dated May 29, 1997 entitled "Giant Amway finds it tough to clean up in South Korea." The jist of the article was that Amyway had violated South Korean law against comparing two different products. Amyway had claimed that "Dish Drops" was "more environmentally friendly than local detergents." Local consumer groups and the Korea Soap and Detergent Association attacked Amway's direct marketing methods as "subverting community morals." They also allege that 'Families, frienships and even communities are destroyed by the pressure to sell to friends and associates." Do you have any more information on this? Particularly, do you know what community morals (of South Korea) are being violated.

Thank you for your response.

Hi

What are your opinions of the gender roles within Amways today ?

My partner has been involved for just over a year and I know that I am get sick and tired on being his "handbag" and "little woman".

Do you see this a being an issue, from the emails that you have received or perhaps it's just me being paranoid ! (God knows it don't take much to become a complete looney hanging around with Amway people !)

Looking forward to hearing from you soon

I have questions about Amway. Are these people who go door to door selling stuff? Because I remember my brother bought some bathroom cleaning solutions from them, and I had my suspicions about them?

Mr. Schwartz...

Thanks for all of the information on your Amway pages. We are having a problem with Amway individuals promoting their scheme in my spouse's workplace. One of the items I have looked for on the web is a list of Amway recommended motivational books. One of the current techniques appears to be loaning out books rather than the tapes to unsuspecting individuals. The books do not have direct references to Amway, but the representatives must get a list from somewhere. Do you know of the whereabouts of such specific information on the web?

[This guy is certainly prolific, if not very bright or original.]

Schwartz,

How come the first amendment rights apply to you, but not to Amway distributors. You can defame a corporation and think you can get away with. Amway is going to sue you for libel, aren't they? HA HA HA. But if Amway does it, you call it strong arm tactics. Your credability is pretty thin. And one has to remember, anyone, and I mean anyone, can put up a website, especially with Daddy's money. This specifically applies to you Snyddles.

And as far as Amway providing unfair competition -- why would they provide a Visa that allows you to apply your purchases of competitor's products toward your volume discount rebate? Really sounds like cutthroat competition to me!!! Will Proctor and Gamble give me a rebate on Amway products I buy -- I think not. Why not go with Amway and get the best of all worlds?

Another thing, I bet you don't put this letter, or any of my previous ones, on your web, and if you do I bet they are edited beyond the point of recognition. You don't want truth, you just want to appease your hatred.

Sidney,

For my part and the part of all CHRISTIANS who have heard the alledged false accusation about P&G, I refuse to buy any P&G products. This is my right as an American. That is the AMerican WAY. Now is P&G going to sue me because I refuse to use their products? I find it horrible and disgusting that P&G feels it can't compete. P&G's claim that Amway is a pyriamid is just as defaming as Amway independent distributor's, not even Amway itself, claim that P&G is satanic. I would think that P&G would find more productive ways to fight the satanic rap. After all, I didn't here it from an Amway distributor, I heard it from a Christian organization.

Very Sorry that you tilt at windmills,

Sidney,

I forgot to mention - you are a little behind on the times, and this information may make you wet your pants. But Amway now distributes P&G products, Sorry your crusade turn out to be a wild goose chase, you can't beat the best. Would you like to know more changes that you were unaware of?

Humbly smirking, John

[After I asked him--twice--which P&G products Amway was distributing, he finally admitted he'd lied, and then continued to spew out the usual canned Ambabble...]

Okay, okay, I lied -- there are no P&G products sold by Amway (P&G products don't measure up to Amway's high standards). But what do you expect from an Amway man, huh? I don't buy P&G products because they are overpriced and of low quality. Why would I drive an Impala when I could have a Lexus for a few dollars more, and sometimes for even less? Oh, and P&G is not the only thing (besides Amway) out there, just the worse. Amway itself sells Magnavox, BellSouth, Cambells, Minolta, Toshiba, LA Gear, Adidas, American Tourister, Samsonite, Seiko, Timex, Panasonic, Zenith, Sharp, Fisher, Maxwell, Sanyo, AT&T, Casio, MCI, Canon, First Alert, Goodyear, Eureka, Sylvania, Whirlpool, Hoover, Rubbermaid, Voit, HealthRider, Johnson & Johnson, General Mills, Kellogg's, Kraft, BumbleBee, OceanSpray, Lay's, SunMaid, Jolly Rancher, Jelly Belly, Nabisco, Pepperage Farm, Laurentis, among many other companies', products. Now why doesn't Amway sell P&G products? SA-8 is better than TIDE, that's why. I hear tell that DeVos and VanAndel made a commitment that if Amway had a product and there was a higher quality one on the market, they would also sell it. Now I think that P&G sees the writing on the wall and recognizes a potentially formidable marketing opponent. What better way to eliminate some of the competition than to discredit it. If you can actually tell me that P&G upper level cronies are wiser than the ones in the list above, and that they aren't worried about competition, you must have had a traumatic experience. With the plan, the product base, and the new order/delivery system, there isn't anything better than Amway. Oh, except that Amway is a cult. Well let's look at that for a minute. I really don't need tapes and meetings except when I run into bigoted people like you. This is when I need an uplift. It can be very frustrating. The tapes help. And we really need to get help because our cult is trying to get us to buy detergent and Goodyear tires - OH DREAD - where do we get deprogramming!!! And another thing, Amway has a VISA now that gives PV on every purchase - so if I wanted to buy P&G products, I could still get it included in my Volume Discount Rebate. Why buy products any other way except the Amway??? I know if I were the CEO of P&G, I'd be trying to find a way to "stop the madness".

John

Mr. Schwartz,

About the lawsuit. Rumors shouldn't be spread about P&G. But Amvox is suppose to be private -- like mail. Are we entering into a Fascist period in American history? And, since Haugen is a Diamond -- if he loses the lawsuit, the $50,000+punitive will not even dent a one month check. Do feel your goat being gotten?

How come you are so nice on your page, but rude as hell directly?

John

Hey, Schwartzie,

Remember loose lips sinks ships, or should I say loose fingers in this case. I've got some pretty revealing emails that you sent me. Now who is wetting his pants?

Amway forever!!! John

Schwartzy,

I am putting up a web page, and I am putting your ad hominem attacks on it to show that your motivated by some kind of hatred instead of rationality. Please respond some more to give me more to destroy your credibility with!!!

Thanks tremendously, Hugs and Kisses John

When you are at the top, naturally you can expect the most venumous attacks from jokers like you! What planet are you from? I have read all of the articles and testimonials for others, on your rag website!

Tell me this Ace! Where are all of the posative articles that are all over the place about this business? Such as the article by Dr. Shad Helmstetter, U.S.A. today, Wednesday, May 29, 1996? I have seen more of these types of articles than you can shake a stick at! [But could only manage to cite one.] You need to go back to the library and get your head out of your butt buddy!

I am certain that your alternative business plan has more merit. Work all of your life, and get tossed out like a used piece of garbage by Ivery Towered creeps, who would sell your soul to the devil for a buck. Ask anyone who has been disabled, become sick for a period of time, had the misfortune to be with one of these companies that offer you nothing in return for your years of labor, accept the gate!

You are the reason independant thought was almost killed throughout the centuries. You are so wrong, you stink of it!!!!!

Not one person I know in the Amway business is forced, badgered, made to buy or sell tools, tapes, tickets, or any other tripe you are pushing here. What a cock of crap. Who do you work for?

I have never seen suck a one sided pile of manure in my life!!!! Try selling your garbage to someone else. Find the tens of thousands of people whose lives are better because of this business. All I see here is junk!

Isn't it strange how a person with questionable ethics can maintain a website and expect his readers to actually believe what is presented? What needs to be done is to let the readers know from where this persons point of view extents from. Does he give all sides of the story or are the facts presented in a biased manner? If so, who profits from this?

I've read many of the comments and so called horror stories pertaining to the Amway expierience for some. Wisdom and success are made through a series of mistakes which it appears many of the respondents have had their share.

I think it's important for people to understand that they do not work for amway nor are they obligated to attend functions,buy tapes,books or follow the advice of their sponsor. People should understand however that to change your fortunes in life some sacrifices will have to be made.

My wife and I consider ourselves independent contractors utilizing the amway distribution network to access the goods and services of major corporations. We encourage sharp minded people like yourself to look at the total oppurtunity independent contracting offers. If you feel uncomfortable with what you see or hear find something else.

We do know that the security and future of any person or family is in working for yourself. Your job provides a living, Your business provides a lifestyle.

I congratulate you on the time and effort that you have spent on the subject. I must add a few comments. I cannot resist. I noticed that in your research and write-ups, regardless of the outcome, you tended to give Amway a negative slant. If the product rated high or low, you pushed the high price. That seems a bit selfish on your part. Ever notice these things in a supermarket? You should spend some time on them too. You can get a bunch of people wound up if you did a store such as Walmart! By the way, did you know that at our local Walmart, at their morning meetings, the employees all have to sing a little song? Sounds like an Amway rally to me! Could this be a secret new cult craze that's silently sweeping America!! Wouldn't it be absolutely silly to stop doing business with them because they do something that some people view as a cult thing? Watch out for hat sales person -- he's going to try to sell you something!!! Oh no!

I feel sorry for the people who think that you saved them from being sponsored. The fact is that most of these people don't know enough about the business to know if they were lucky or not. If an IBM executive interviewed me, hired me, and then did nothing but lie too me about various job duties and responsibilities, does that make the whole IBM company bad? Of course not! It means that IBM has a bad person working for them.

I read the response about the person who had a bad experience with a member of World Wide Dreambuilders. Too bad. They either dealt with some bad people or they didn't speak up and say "no". I've got some amazing news!

There are bad people in every organization of the Amway opportunity! But! There are millions of good people too! And guess what? There are bad people in EVERY business and RELIGION too! AND ther are MILLIONS of GOOD people too! Imagine that! Amway has high prices. It has low prices. It has bad people. It has good people.

Just as every other business. Everyone must take a good clear look at any business that they patronize or work with. Evaluate the people who you are dealing with. People make it happen in every business. If someone claims to be a consultant and that's what they do, then that is what they are. If they are Amway distributors and all they do is consulting, they are consultants. What if they did the same thing but, they worked for AT&T? They are still consultants, regardless of who they work for or with.

Lost money? I knew a lady who opened a small store once. She took a risk. She lost it all. It's not the store's fault. It's hers. Candybars don't sell. People do. If you can't sell candybars, sell something else. And don't spend the rest of your life preaching to others how candybars are no good because they don't sell! Besides, other people are out there selling candybars like crazy for 10 times more than what you couldn't sell them for!

Sell something else??? Personally, I prefer selling services thruogh Amway (and other companies). Services are nice because once you make the initial sale, the profits come in automatically every month. You don't have to go back to the customer every month. With Amway, and any other company, you can make money or lose money. It is all up to you and how YOU do it.

Some people swear by a product. Good or no good, you can't convince some people. Funny, this happens with all businesses, not just Amway. We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble and still others make excuses. Thanks for the opportunity to write. Interesting site.

a friend of mine has recently become a zeleous prophit of the amway cult (you already know the rest). another is seeking millions from adverworld (an interesting one; multilevel web pages, over 25,000, fastest growing multilevel...) your page & links were a valuable research source for me. thanks for your great work!

I just wanted to let you know that i think the header you had before is much much better than the your new header.

Thanks for presenting the "other side" of this promotion. It saved me $150.00.

Just wondering. How can people say it is a fraud when there are plenty of decent people making money doing it? For those people who lost "the shirt off their back" . . . I feel sorry for you because you must not know how to manage yuor money very well. It is true that Amway may not be for everyone. I admit that, but I also admit that it is the best business opportunity in the world today. Wake up people!

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