Return-Path: Received: from b.gp.cs.cmu.edu by K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id ac25896; 23 Jan 91 17:41:43 EST Received: from b.gp.cs.cmu.edu by B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa01089; 23 Jan 91 17:33:28 EST To: maslen@gday.eng.sun.com Cc: bovik@CS.CMU.EDU Subject: Car cover reccommendations Date: Wed, 23 Jan 91 17:33:21 EST Message-ID: <1087.664670001@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Nigel.Goddard@B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU Yes, I received a lot of replies. Summary is: waterproof is bad, best material is Evolution-3. Primary reasons for a cover are to protect paint job from (a) sun (b) dust and other air-pollution (c) tree droppings, bird guano. A snug fit is good, otherwise the wind will rub the cover against the car, potentially abrading the paint job. I append the messages. The most informative two, from the same person, come first. Nigel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jenny Ladd Nigel, You *don't* want water-proof, unless it's NOT touching the car. If it's going to rest on the car - it will do more damage than it will prevent. Simple mosture that will dry thru a nylon cover won't hurt the car as much as a cover that will hold the moisture in (on a sunny day - the moisture under the cover will try to evaporate and can't and will essentially collect right on your finsih, and sit there! You also want to get one that won't scratch the car, and try to make sure the cover and the car are as clean as possible when you cover it. Both the nylon and canvas ones they sell are water resistant, so the difference is: Nylon is smaller. lighter, and easier to store. A *pain* to put on a large car as it's so light it blows right off until you've got it fastened down. Canvas is slightly more resistant to scratchs and dents from objects falling on the car, heavier (therefor easier to put on the car) and will be yucky to handle when wet. They do make "car tents." You can find them advertised in any specialty car magazine. This is a true tent, it doesn't touch the car, and is supported by poles and stakes. From: Jenny Ladd Nigel, In a nutshell: You paint is there to protect the metal of the body. If it's in flawless shape, it'll do its job. As nicks and tiny scratches make their way thru to the primer and metal levels, you now have the start of a path for moisture to cause rust. Salt - the # 1 enemy, can't do it's dirty work without moisture (that's why in Salt Lake City, cars don't rust out like they do here). Moisture by itself, doesn't do too much damage to your paint. It's the dirt from the air, the road, and stuff that drops on (sap, bird droppings, etc) the paint that causes it to deteriorate. Sunlight does a wonderful job too. This is in addition to the nicks and gouges from rocks, and road schrapnel. In the best of all worlds, you car would preserve best if you kept it in a low humidity, heated garage when not in use. Since we all can't do that (I don't even have a driveway to get my car off the street onto, unfortunately) we make compromises. If the car is going to be used when there is salt on the road - make *sure* it can dry out, and keep it was washed off as possible (especially the underside). If you have a space for a tent - I'd recommend one of those. If you don't and are going to use the car once or twice a week, I'd say just keep it uncovered, and de-salted/washed as often as possible. Next year make sure to wash it *thoroughly* and give it a good coating of polymer wax before the weather turns cold. If we get another 50 degree day, you can do it then, but a thorough washing can take hours! You should be able to give it a "white glove test" *everywhere* before it's clean enough to use the polymer sealer. Most companies also sell a car wash/ prep solution to use with their sealer. If you are going to use the car once a week or less, then a breathable cover is probably worth the effort. They do take a few minutes to put on, and a few minutes to take off. Oh yeah - another difference between nylon and canvas - is you have to be real careful with the nylon touching a hot exhaust pipe - it will melt! I couldn't tell if by "soft top" you meant a convertible rag-top, or a vinyl roof, which is just a covering over the normal metal roof. If you've got one of those "fuzzy puesdo-convertible-tops" that I've seen on some Dynastys and Cadilacs, then I've got no clue as to what they are made of, but they probably follow the same care rules as the older version: Keep it free from rips and gouges, and use a good vinyl sealer (armor-all or equivalent) on a very clean (guess what! ;-) Armor-all makes a "old coat stripper" to use before applying their product.....) roof. Try to do this when it won't rain for quite a while and don't park under trees when you do it, give the sealer a while to dry. The polymer waxes dry almost as fast as you put it on, but the armor-all type stuff is more like a spray laquer that needs a little time to dry. If there are any holes in the covering - you will have problems. Either an ugly fix of silicon goop or a visit to a profe$$ional body shop can help you on this. Two other things that most frequently kill cars (and most frequently overlooked): 1) Make sure you have no leaks from the windshields. GM cars of the 60 and 70 invariably started leaking into trunk from the rear windshield. This causes incredible damage- especially if you have a trunk "pretty-up" kit or carpeting that prevents you from seeing the water, and prevents it from drying out. If your carpeting inside the car is ever wet for an unknown reason - check for leaks! 2) Likewise, make sure door drains - do! Water will always run down the windows thru the inside of the doors in a heavy rain, and there are drain holes in the underside of the doors to let it run out the bottom. Make sure these holes stay clear so that the water doesn't just sit in the door. ...and just in case you're wondering. I have a "garage Queen." That's a car that doesn't see the light of day unless it's a perfect sunny summer day! No Friday the 13ths, no days-of-full-moons, and it's not out on the street on Friday or Saturday evenings when one drunk can ruin 21 collisionless years for my poor baby. It's a '69 Firebird with a black vinyl roof that saw 18 years of sitting in the unrelenting California sun. The top is literally putting apart so you can see the threads in the backing cloth. The (original) paint was washed and buffed soooo much that the primer is showing thru on the back panel. Since it's a collector car, I can't afford to ruin it with a cheap paint job (it's more valuable with the original paint, as bad as it is) but just for perspective - the lack of salt for it's first 18 years, even though it was poorly sheltered, made it's current good shape possible. Likewise, you can purchase cars in equivalent shape from the Salty desert areas out west - where they *do* have salt - but not the moisture to make corrode. Salt *holds* moisture, so "dry" here isn't really "dry" enough. Good luck! Jenny "I could identify a corvette before I could spell!" From: carlsonb@acc.stolaf.edu In article <11503@pt.cs.cmu.edu> you write: >I'm looking to buy a cover for my good car. I use it very infrequently >during the winter when roads are salted. It will sit in the driveway. ... >trap moisture, but on the other hand a water repellent cover won't I have used a cheap nylon (NOT H^2O-proof at all) cover for a couple of years now. Being in Minnesota, I thought I could throw it over the car and save myself time brushing off snow in the morning. Unfortunately, if the car is warm (especially the hood), some of the snow that falls over night melts, goes right through the cover, and freezes again. In the morning, I end up brushing off the cover and peeling it off the car ('ouch' says the paint-job!). Also, pulling a waterlogged cover off the car feels like a dip in the pool. I think (based on my 1/2 of the story) that it would be MUCH nicer to have a cover that shed water. (my two cents-worth) -brad -- *"Shaggy and Scooby go to the (haunted) kitchen; Thelma goes to the * * library, and falls through the revolving bookcase. But where do Fred * * and Daphne disappear to? They run in late with their hair messed... * * Ever wonder?" -Brad Carlson, Interworld: carlsonb@thor.acc.stolaf.edu* From: Doug Fierro For a good car cover, you are going to have to spend some money, but probably not more than $130. They DO make covers that not only keep water out, but let moisture evaporate from underneath the car. These covers are thick in material and should have extra pockets on the side for the side-mirrors. Cheap covers will not have these side pockets for the mirrors, or whatever they are called. Sun is the biggest factor that ages a car, and I guess out towards the east coast water plays a factor as well. Usually you want to park in a shady area during the day but do NOT park under trees- sap and bird shit are worse than sunshine. Here at work you I park on certain sides of the building during the year so that my your car is in the shade without being under a tree. Good luck with finding a cover. Doug -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Doug Fierro "Read my lips... I lied." fierro@uts.amdahl.com red lights suck UNIX division <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From: Mark A Myers I have a cover made from Evolution 3 fabric and am pleased with it. Although it is not 100% waterproof, but as you know, if it keeps that much water out, it will also keep moisture in. The only time water gets in is when it's raining VERY hard or in places where the water "puddles" on the car due to the rear wing (Mustang). But even in these situations the car doesn't get extremely wet. Also, I've never used this cover in the winter, so I don't know how it would react with snow; probably well if you brushed it off before it had a chance to melt. I got the best price (~$120) from a place called the Auto Stand in California, (800)334-4196. Mark. From: Agent of Goldstein 05-Jan-1991 1614 [] I have 2 car covers made from "Evolution 3" fabric, and I am very satisfied with them. One was from J.C. Whitney, the other from Exoto Cover-Up (from an ad in one of the car mags). These covers keep the car dry in light to medium rain. They soak through in heavy rain, but breathe so well that the car dries quickly when the sun comes out. (You do NOT want to put a waterproof cover on a car as it will trap moisture!!) Whitney seems to have the best price. I got a cover for a '65 Marlin from them for about 110 bucks. On my 2nd cover (for '67 Rebel convertible), Whitney sent the wrong item, so I wound up sending it back and getting one from Exoto for about 130 bucks. The two covers seem to be of equivalent quality. If you have a real sensitive paint job, such as lacquer, you might not want to use a cover as there is always going to be some friction from the wind blowing it around. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Alpert { alpert@chovax.dec.com } Suspicion breeds DEC { ...!decwrl!chovax.dec.com!alpert } confidence. Cherry Hill, NJ { alpert%chovax.dec@decwrl.dec.com } ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Agent of Goldstein 07-Jan-1991 0123 I have found that one of the major areas the cover helps with is to protect the car from the sun. I don't see how a cover would protect from rust. It may help to keep some acid rain off if that is a problem in your area, but it will still soak through in a heavy rain. One of the reasons I use the cover on my Rambler "Cabriolet" is that the top does not seal very well and without the cover the car has to be bailed out after a heavy rain. It also protects the 24 year old interior from the harmful effects of the sun. Bob A. From: Daniel Raguin The car cover that I used is a Wolf brand and does a pretty good job of protecting the car against the rain, while still allowing any trapped moisture to escape out. Since the cloth is breathable, after heavy rains, I will find that water has gotten through, but in light rains, it does stay dry. I bought it about 8 months ago for $100 on sale. You might try looking into a car cover which I believe is called Evolution-3 that's advertised in car magazines. I'd guess that any good car cover will cost you at least $100. Dan From: Cam Miller A while back (could have been a couple of years) I caught pieces of a show called Motor Week on WQED that was talking about car covers and car bras (those things that some people put over the front end of the car and think they look 'cool'). At any rate, I clearly remember that it was the show's opinion that both were very bad for a car. Problem is, I'm not completely sure why. I know that they talked about the fact that if you use a cover on a car that isn't completely clean, the act of putting on and taking off the cover would drag dirt particles over it and scratch the paint over time. But there seemed to be some other reason that they were so negative - and I missed that part. Maybe an old issue of Consumer Reports or some auto magazine would have a summary. Check the library database. From: R742GL02@VB.CC.CMU.EDU Nigel, I'd say the best thing is to get the best water-repellant soft car cover. These can cost more than $100, triple-layer, fast-drying, non-abrasive, etc. Use it to cover your car on a sunny warm day with low humidity and your car is clean and dry. Then cover this car cover with any cheap, water proof tarp which can be bought for around $20. I bought a very nice car cover from JC Whitney (a catalog company) for around $100 made to fit my car (a VW Beetle) some years ago. If you'd like to see a Whitney catalog I think I have one. Gordon From: Ad absurdum per aspera Exactly. They have to be breathable. The idea is really to protect your car not from rain, but from UV and from dust, which are the two main destroyers of your paint job. The thicker ones also give quite a bit of protection from life's little bumps. I have it on good authority that you should go shopping with about $130 or so in your jeans and come back with a nice, thick cover made of a composite sandwich of materials from another planet. The really cheap ones are supposed to be worse than nothing. --Joe