Received: from F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU by K.CS.CMU.EDU; 23 Mar 87 10:39:56 EST Date: Mon, 23 Mar 87 10:38:27 EST From: Randy Pausch Subject: mini-vans To: Harry Bovik Message-ID: <543512307.03288/rfp@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu> I sent out a request for information on the Caravan and Voyager mini-vans ... here's what I got: Received: from UNH.CS.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 19 Mar 87 18:44:05 EST To: rfp@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Randy Pausch) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 87 18:43:30 EST From: Derek L. Beatty Subject: Dodge Caravan X-Mailer: Elm [version 1.5] Randy, I've had some limited experience with one of these. Perhaps this will help. When I was a junior in college, our IEEE chapter rented a couple of Dodge Caravans to drive to a conference, about 600 miles each way, mostly interstate driving. I found the driving position very comfortable (I tend to find most cars uncomfortable), even when on the return trip I drove from 8 pm until 4 am, stopping but once. (My relief driver fell asleep before he was to take over.) The armrests were perfectly placed. The climate control system was also excellent (I needed both the air conditioning and the heater on that trip.) On one steep interstate hill (I-40 eastbound at Black Mountain, NC), the van slowed from 60 to 35 before downshifting, and in the city low-speed acceleration was barely adequate (things were fine above about 20 mph, if I remember). I don't know which of the available engines this particular van had, but the vehicle was "loaded" with lots of other options, so I suspect it had the larger one. Handling was much better than I had expected; it reminded me more of my mother's Rabbit than my father's VW van. It certainly handled better than the '61 Falcon I drove at the time. Keep in mind that these comments refer to an 84 model. I believe that my roommate's parents have one of these for about 2 years, and I don't think they've had major problems. -- Derek Received: from K.CS.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 19 Mar 87 18:56:03 EST Date: Thu, 19 Mar 87 18:28:44 EST From: Steve.Hoffmann@K.CS.CMU.EDU To: Pausch@f Subject: Voyager We have one and love it. It is our only car and we have taken it to Florida and New York as well as lots of in-town driving. Packing for trips is easy because of the large available space. We have the 7 pas. seating option and the space between the rear seat and the hatch is bigger than you might suppose. There is enough room to spread the kids (3) out so that they are less inclined to bug each other on long trips. In town, we appreciate the ease of parking and the excellent view over traffic. It is just the right height to see above ordinary cars and is still 8 inches or so lower (at the floor level) than the competing vans. Problems: 1. We had trouble with the ignition switch/headlight&seatbelt bell assembly and it was replaced (along with all the door locks so the keys would match) under warranty. 2. Stuff on the floor tends to slide forward between the seats and under the driver's feet because of the flat floor. I solved that one by stretching a bungi cord between the fronts of the seat frames. The flat floor is otherwise a great advantage. 3. Nothing will stay on the little shelf next to the driver's console while the car is moving. A deeper rim would help and maybe the new models have one (ours is an 85). Options which we wouldn't have ordered but which we like in retrospect: 1. Power door locks. Beats running around to see that everything is locked. 2. 20 gal. fuel tank. A day's trip is a tank of gas so you don't need to stop at a ripoff island. 3. Tilt-wheel. Getting the driving position right is nice. Also, when sitting in the car while parked, tilting it all the way up frees your lap for a book, notepad, etc. Options we would have ordered and we were right. 1. Cruise control. Driver's leg doesn't cramp on trips and also no inadvertant speeding. 2. Real spare tire. 3. Righthand mirror. 4. Air-conditioning and tinted glass. There is a lot of glass for green house effect. Call if you have any other questions. Received: from GNOME.CS.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 19 Mar 87 19:24:50 EST Date: Thu, 19 Mar 87 19:17:29 EST From: Karen.VanDusen@GNOME.CS.CMU.EDU To: pausch@f Subject: Minivans I LOVE mine. I'm in a wheelchair, and I drive a 7-passenger with the middle seat removed so I can toss the chair in back. It handles well, although even with the bigger engine (numbers escape me) it doesn't have the acceleration that many other cars do. After driving both a small car and a full size van, I think I can confidently say that it has the best of both worlds. I haven't kept mileage on mine, but I know it's pretty good. It drove me to California at the beginning of the summer, and it was terrific. Lots and lots of room to put everything, and still room left to move around. Can't think of any specific details I can give you. Mine is a Dodge Caravan, '86 LE. Let me know if there are any questions I can answer. Karen Van Dusen P.S. Sorry if this is a bit scatter-brained, I've just thrown things down as I thought of them. Date: 20 Mar 1987 08:39-EST From: Sharon.Burks@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu To: pausch@f Subject: Driving Message-Id: <543245962/burks@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu> I've drive a Plymouth Voyager -- and really loved it. Handled more like a car than a van -- that is, not so much like a tank! Received: from THEORY.CS.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 20 Mar 87 08:50:25 EST Date: 20 Mar 1987 08:41-EST From: Gene.Rollins@theory.cs.cmu.edu To: Randy.Pausch@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: driven "Caravan" or "Voyager" vans? Message-Id: <543246091/rollins@theory.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Randy.Pausch's bboard message of 19-Mar-87 17:59 I bought a Voyager last April, and it's been great. I do work on my house so I wanted to haul stuff. I am used to drving a Toyota Corolla. The Voyager is the same length as my Corolla, but it is wider, and higher. The width makes it not as manuverable as the Corolla; its turning radius is larger. But, it is quite driveable; I parallel park in the city without much trouble. And my wife finds it driveable too. I have never had trouble with height; I get into any garage I want. Krebs in Glenshaw is a good dealer. Ask for Joe. He was a reasonable salesman. Unfortunately, the guy I had was a real pain in the ass. .................gene Received: from BE.SEI.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 20 Mar 87 09:17:20 EST Resent-Message-Id: <8703201416.AA21350@be.sei.cmu.edu> Date: Friday, 20 March 1987 09:07:02 EST From: Mary.Shaw@sei.cmu.edu To: Pausch@sei.cmu.edu Subject: Small vans/large station wagons Message-Id: <1987.3.20.14.3.45.Mary.Shaw@sei.cmu.edu> Resent-To: pausch@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Resent-From: Mary.Shaw@sei.cmu.edu Resent-Date: Friday, 20 March 1987 09:15:58 EST Randy, 1. Jim Roberts, of the intro programming group, bought a small van last year. I think it was a voyager/caravan. He has an office on the 6200 corridor. 2. I just (less than a week ago) bought a Colt Vista Wagon. It replaces my small wagon, not my van -- but my impression is that it would do for me a great deal of what a small van would do. In fact, it seems like Consumers included the Vista or some similar car last time it rated small vans (which was quite a while ago, like '84). What are the requirements that lead you to a caravan/voyager? Mary Received: from FARADAY.ECE.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 20 Mar 87 09:49:55 EST Received: by faraday.ECE.CMU.EDU (4.12/4.7) id ; Fri, 20 Mar 87 09:41:35 est; Date: 20 Mar 1987 09:33-EST From: David.Maynard@faraday.ECE.CMU.EDU Subject: Re: driven "Caravan" or "Voyager" vans? To: Randy.Pausch@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu@faraday.ECE.CMU.EDU Message-Id: <543249191/dpm@faraday> In-Reply-To: Randy.Pausch@f gp cs cmu edu's bboard message of 19-Mar-87 18:11 My parents own a Voyager LE (around '84-85) and are very happy with it. I have driven it several times and find it easy to handle. I don't know what engine options are currently offered, but if you are looking at new ones, I would definitely consider the upgrade from the 2.2L (if that is still the standard). My parents' has the 2.6L by Mitsubishi and have had no significant problems with it. I've never driven one with a smaller engine, but always had the feeling that I would miss the extra power (especially if you plan to load it very heavily). As far as power with the larger engine, my parents tow a small trailer with a BIG riding lawn mower (up a mountain) without any problem. Once I read that their emergency braking performance was poor. I never had to test it, but suspect that they stop more like a van than a car. Overall, I give them a very good rating. -David Received: from GNOME.CS.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 20 Mar 87 10:45:12 EST Date: Friday, 20 March 1987 10:20:05 EST From: James.Roberts@gnome.cs.cmu.edu To: pausch@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: VOYAGER Message-ID: <1987.3.20.15.7.33.James.Roberts@gnome.cs.cmu.edu> Greeting: Concerning your post on the voyager, I have had one for about 1 year and have had absolutely no trouble. I have the big four (Mitsibushi) and the three seat arrangement in the LE version (luxury). We chose the LE over the SE because the options we required were not available on the SE and we chose the packages that contained them because they were cheaper that being installed individually. Specifically we required: High back cloth covered seats (safty & comfort) Dark glass (we had this in our last van for 10 years and it is a good option Cruise Control Heavy duty suspension Larger fuel tank We chose a model on the lot because there was no guarenteed delivery time. We also found the local dealers less than helpful. We ended up a Krebs and like their service. There was little price variation and little desire to deal because the vehicle is very popular. So far I have only changed the oil. The upkeep chart is virtually empty. The van's crash worthiness is not the greatest according to consumer reports but it seems to be as good as any van. The front wheel drive is good in the snow but the rear end will swerve around quickly if you lock up the wheels when attempting to stop. The ride is harsh with the heavy duty suspension and actually rides better with four or more people. The ride is quiet and handling is good if you drive reasonably. The package we purchased also had the tilt wheel which is nice for longer trips. The seats are heavy 75 lbs for the small one but they are very easy to lock into and take out of the van. the cargo area is about 6 feet long. I have read that a new version will hold an 8 x 4 piece of wood but I do not know when it will available. Gas mileage is about 25-30 on trips. We carry two or three canoes so I can't speak for normal trips. The car started well this winter and is running well now. I am using the premimum unleaded but I think a tune up will help. Hope this helps Jim Received: from CAD.CS.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 20 Mar 87 15:43:19 EST Date: 20 Mar 1987 15:25-EST From: Marion.Kee@cad.cs.cmu.edu To: Randy.Pausch@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: driven "Caravan" or "Voyager" vans? Message-Id: <543270332/kee@cad.cs.cmu.edu> I've owned one for about a year. They drive a lot like a midsize car and handle well for their bulk. We have overloaded ours on occasion and it has not suffered. I'd advise getting the V-6 option; it wasn't available when we bought ours, and we do OK even with the hills here, but one would have to think less about when to give it the gas if the engine were more powerful. Ours has no trouble on interstates; in fact, it thinks 65 is a great speed and will hold it on hills if it has already reached that speed. We have a roof rack and have found it to have little effect on mileage when loaded; a pleasant surprise (but then, we load it intelligently, most of the time. ;-) Mileage averages about 25 mpg, mixed city and highway. Traffic jams bring it down quite a bit, though. Pure highway driving usually gives 26-28 mpg; load has little effect overall. We got our Voyager because we are in the Society for Creative Anachronism and haul medieval armor and other gear around on weekends. Our friends borrow it to haul furniture. We got a 5-passenger model and we pop the back seat out when necessary, which is easy to do. We have 13,000 miles on ours. We bought it at North Hills Chrysler-Plymouth (Trader Bud's) which is owned by the Mafia but gave us a good deal, and have been satisfied with their service--which we've admittedly needed very little of. Ours is a base model with exactly the options we wanted--roof rack, back window wiper (highly recommended), air conditioning (mostly for resale value), wide tires, extra sound insulation and a couple of other little things. We now think we would have liked the extra lock package and the light package, but those are minor points. It's black--which was at the bottom of our color list--but we bought it anyway, and surprisingly the color hasn't been a problem, except perhaps with night visibility. We have changed a tire or 2 and it was not much of a problem. The combination of side door/fairly low distance to step up has been nice for passengers, and for loading big objects. The engine is designed fairly intelligently, and it's not hard to reach vital spots. On the whole, since we needed the room, I don't think we could have done much better, and we did look hard at the Ford and Toyota before settling on the Voyager. (One look at Consumer Reports made us decide to ignore the Chevy, and eventually persuaded us that the brakes on the Ford were enough cause to strike it from our list, too. Our objections to the Toyota were top-heaviness and not liking sitting on top of the engine. The new models may differ slightly.) Chrysler seems to be putting out a very solid product. --Marion Received: from IUS1.CS.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 20 Mar 87 17:30:48 EST Date: Friday, 20 March 1987 17:30:43 EST From: Steven.Shafer@ius1.cs.cmu.edu To: pausch@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: Experience with Voyager Message-ID: <1987.3.20.22.25.4.Steven.Shafer@ius1.cs.cmu.edu> Randy -- I drove one of these as a rental car between Denver and Vail. I really liked it -- enough that I would consider owning one myself. It handled beautifully, easily as well as a car handles, and the visibility was excellent. Parking was very easy. I got about 15 miles to the gallon on snowy roads, which I consider to be rotten but marginally acceptable. The "road feel" of the car I found to be just about the same as my Dodge Aries wagon, which is also built on the K-car chassis. -- Steve Received: from ROVER.RI.CMU.EDU by F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU; 23 Mar 87 10:33:54 EST Date: 23 Mar 1987 10:25-EST From: Kevin.Dowling@rover.ri.cmu.edu To: Randy.Pausch@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: driven "Caravan" or "Voyager" vans? Message-Id: <543511550/nivek@rover.ri.cmu.edu> Hi, If you get some responses on the mini-vans, I'd be very interested in them too. I've been looking at the Caravan/Voyager and aslo the Chevy Astro and Ford Aerostar both of which can handle larger cargo and heavier towing loads. I know that Consumer Reports rated them higher but It didn't seem that large a factor. nivek