Date: Friday, 13 December 1985 13:43:29 EST
From: Barbara.Staudt@gandalf.cs.cmu.edu
To: bovik@k.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Cars
Message-ID: <1985.12.13.18.42.44.Barbara.Staudt@gandalf.cs.cmu.edu>

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Date: Friday, 13 December 1985 11:01:12 EST
From: Irving.Oppenheim@cive.ri.cmu.edu
To: bjs@gandalf.cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Car dealers
Message-ID: <1985.12.13.15.56.58.Irving.Oppenheim@cive.ri.cmu.edu>

I have purchased two new cars in the last three years, and can
recommend one (or two, depending on your counting scheme) dealer.
I bought a Toyota from Krebs and King on route 8; their repairs
are surprisingly reasonable too.  I was then in the market for a
Dodge/Plymouth vehicle.  I found a far better deal at K&K Plymouth
(also on route 8) than at Baum Blvd.  


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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 85 11:13:28 est
From: Robert Zimmermann <raz@faraday.ECE.CMU.EDU>
Message-Id: <8512131613.AA02184@faraday.ECE.CMU.EDU>
To: bjs@y
Subject: cars

I've had reasonably good luck with Krebs&King Toyota, but stay
far away from Ted McWilliams.  They have a terrible reputation.

My roommate bought a Daytona.  He was very pleased with it, but it
has developed some (software??) problems, and stalls out on
occasion.  This is probably not a problem with the manual transmission.

raz

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Received: from K.CS.CMU.EDU by GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU; 13 Dec 85 11:27:13 EST
Received: from UNH.CS.CMU.EDU by K.CS.CMU.EDU; 13 Dec 85 11:26:10 EST
Date: 13 Dec 1985 11:01-EST 
From: Derek.Beatty@UNH.CS.CMU.EDU
To: Barbara.Staudt@K.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Re: Cars and car dealers
Message-Id: <503337701/beatty@UNH.CS.CMU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: Barbara.Staudt's bboard message of 13-Dec-85 10:40

You asked for opinions so here are some opinions and rumors:

My roommate (dpm@k) has a Chrysler Laser; he likes it.  My landlady
has a Dodge Daytona, though she's had it only a short while. If you get
one of these with automatic transmission, I'm told that you should get
the turbocharged engine.

The new Ford/Mercury models set to be introduced Real Soon Now look
intriguing, but it's stupid to buy a newly-introduced model of
anything: you're guaranteed to have problems.

My father's mechanic, back in North Carolina, used to be the honest
service manager of a huge crooked Volkswagen dealer; now he works for
himself, on only foreign cars.  He says that Hondas are easy to fix,
Toyotas are OK, and Subarus are nearly impossible to work on.  I'm
never going to buy a Subaru.  A friend put gasahol in his Subaru, and
the alcohol dissolved most of the plastic in the emission controls
system, leading to a painful repair bill.  When he had the air
conditioner charged, one of its components exploded from the pressure.
On the other hand, my aunt, who knows nothing about cars, loves her
Subaru.

I hope you find reliable transportation and an honest dealer.

				-Derek

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Received: from K.CS.CMU.EDU by GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU; 13 Dec 85 11:53:12 EST
Received: from G.CS.CMU.EDU by K.CS.CMU.EDU; 13 Dec 85 11:52:04 EST
Date: 13 Dec 1985 11:18-EST 
From: Ivor.Durham@G.CS.CMU.EDU
To: Barbara.Staudt@K.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Re: Cars and car dealers
Message-Id: <503338720/id@G.CS.CMU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: Barbara.Staudt's bboard message of 13-Dec-85 10:37

Random items:
	Car and Driver has reviews of the some of the cars you listed
as follows:
	Toyota Corolla	9/84
	Chrysler Laser	5/85
	Chevy Nova	7/85

I haverecycled these issues, but Carnegie Library subscribes (top floor
in the Science part if I remember correctly.)

Anita Jones (Jones@Tartan) has a Daytona (85 I think) and might be willing
to offer an opinion.  Jack Chidester from rallying just traded in his
Mazda RX7 for a Daytona too.

Bob Chansler (Chansler@Tartan), my rally navigator, bought his Celica from
Rohrich.  I've only dealt with their parts department and I've had
reasonable luck getting parts there although the collective IQ of their
parts people might only just require removing shoes and socks to count.

Kathie Porsche (Kepi@c) has dealt a few times with the service
department of Baum Blvd Dodge when I've been along.  Their patronising
attitude towards women is disgusting.  Also their $36/hour (?) labour
rate is excessive for the quality to the best of my close second hand
knowledge.  Talk to KP for an opinion.

I deal with Krebs Toyota for service and have been very satisfied. They
haven't recommended any unnecessary work and have made convincing
arguments against some work that was not cost-effective (not safety
related).  They don't charge unless they actually work on the car.
Raising the car to look and listen or removing wheels for a look that
discovers nothing is typically free.  The mechanics will ride with you
so you can demonstrate problems too.  I have heard less pleasant things
about their showroom staff in terms of pressure, but have no direct
experience.  They also participate in the "market value adjustment"
price boosting for desirable models like the MR2.

You didn't say what your major criteria are, so offering other
suggestions is hard.  I'm surprised that Honda was omitted from your
list, though because of their range and quality.  For what it's worth I
do have three Car and Driver issues that summarise the current
offerings from Japan, Europe, and Detroit.  They might help you be sure
you've covered the space.

Ivor

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Received: from K.CS.CMU.EDU by GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU; 13 Dec 85 11:53:26 EST
Received: from SENSOR.RI.CMU.EDU by K.CS.CMU.EDU; 13 Dec 85 11:53:06 EST
Date: 13 Dec 1985 11:46-EST
From: Richard.Bickerstaff@SENSOR.RI.CMU.EDU
Subject: Car dealers
To: Staudt@k
Message-Id: <503340389/rdb@SENSOR.RI.CMU.EDU>

Barbara,

I have just dealt with Ted McWilliams toyota (and others), and found
the price to be reasonable.  HOWEVER!!  Do not, under any conditions
finance under them.  The deal they offered us had a total cost (over 5
years) of 12k.  We just checked out some banks and were offered (over 4
years) a total cost of just over 10k.  

If you have cash (or financing) in hand, and a strong stomach (they
push a sale VERY hard), the deal is ok....otherwise avoid like the
plague.

Dick

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Received: from K.CS.CMU.EDU by GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU; 13 Dec 85 13:08:14 EST
Received: from A.SEI.CMU.EDU by K.CS.CMU.EDU; 13 Dec 85 13:07:04 EST
Date: 13 Dec 1985 13:02-EST
From: Miles.Barel@A.SEI.CMU.EDU
Subject: Re: Cars and car dealers
To: Barbara.Staudt@K.CS.CMU.EDU  
Message-Id: <503344979/mab@A.SEI.CMU.EDU>
In-Reply-To: Barbara.Staudt@K.CS.CMU.EDU's bboard message of 13-Dec-85 10:43    

I have owned a Subaru for several years now.  In fact, I just bought a
new one, being extremely happy with my old one.  Upon surveying new
cars recently, I found that Subaru was an extremely good buy for the
money, compared to the offerings of Datsun, Toyota, and others.  In
addition, I purchased by car from Yenko, and am also quite pleased with
their staff and service department.  I recommend them highly.  In
addition, I would like to recommend Bill Bush as a sales person there.
If you go see him, please tell him I sent you, and give him my regards.

Miles Barel

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