Return-Path: Received: from C.CS.CMU.EDU by A.CS.CMU.EDU; 18 Jun 86 10:18:47 EDT Received: ID ; Wed 18 Jun 86 10:18:40-EDT Date: Wed 18 Jun 86 10:18:33-EDT From: Mitch Subject: undergrad computing facilities To: bovik@A.CS.CMU.EDU cc: mbl@C.CS.CMU.EDU Message-ID: <12215804549.31.MBL@C.CS.CMU.EDU> [PHOTO: Recording initiated Sun 15-Jun-86 6:51PM] CMU Tops-20 Command Processor 5.1(1572)-2 @type z*.* Zbrown..1 10-Jun-86 06:04:44-EDT,1553;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from IUS1.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 06:04:43- EDT Date: 10 Jun 1986 05:54-EDT From: Ellen.Walker@ius1.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: undergrad computer facilities Message-Id: <518781285/elw@ius1.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 09-Jun-86 23:47 I left Brown University 5 years ago. (possibly beyond "last few years") In my senior year, there were 2 IBM 370's (one for batch-type & administrative stuff and one for classes & research), and the computer science department had a VAX 780, an Apollo, and at least one fancy graphics workstation. All undergraduate and graduate students were given relatively small accounts on the IBM for free. If you overran your allotment, I think you could get more, although the general practice was to ask your friend for his/her account. In addition, you had a course account for each course you were on the computer for. To use the CS VAX, you had to be a graduate student or taking a graduate course or doing work for a professor. Since I left, a new building was built for the CS department, including a lab with around 40 apollo computers used in some of the undergraduate courses. There are additional Apollos around the department, and at least another vax. I don't know how the university facilities have changed. By the way, this doesn't include any computers that may have been in the Biology, Chemistry, or Physics departments. Ellen Zclarkson..1 10-Jun-86 12:30:38-EDT,971;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from NEWTON.ECE.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 12:30: 35-EDT Date: 10 Jun 1986 1146-EDT From: James Slaski Subject: Computer facilities To: MBL@C.CS.CMU.EDU Reply-To: SLASKI@NEWTON.ECE.CMU.EDU Clarkson University IBM 4341 Main system for administration and course use. VAX 11/780 System for graphics use only. Various VAXen,PDP's, etc. owned by various depts. Non-course accounts on university systems available with advisors signature. (Usually very easy to get.) Starting Fall '83, all incoming freshman required to purchase PC's. Originaly the Zenith Z-100 was used, but I beleive it's been changed to the IBM compatible version of the same machine. Actually Clarkson was the first school to issue PC's to all freshman. I think this was because our semester started slightly earlier than the other schools that did the same thing. ------ Zcolumbia..1 10-Jun-86 09:59:25-EDT,1006;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from h.sei.cmu.edu by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 09:59:23-ED T Received: by h.sei.cmu.edu (4.12/4.7) id ; Tue, 10 Jun 86 09:58:01 edt; Date: Tue, 10 Jun 86 09:58:01 edt From: gek@sei.cmu.edu Message-Id: <8606101358.AA16497@h.sei.cmu.edu> To: mbl@c.cs.cmu.edu Subject: university computers Mitchell, I'm a professor at Columbia University. There they use Dec-20s for undergrads. The students can use the computers for anything they like, and accounts are required for many CS courses (and probably other departments as well). The students are charged $35 per "unit". I've never figured out exactly what a unit is, but I think it's some number of CPU minutes plus some amount of disk space. For a course involving a major programming project, students typically need three of these units. They can be bought anytime during the semester, but do not carry over between semesters. Hope this helps. -Gail Zcornell..1 10-Jun-86 10:44:24-EDT,746;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from SAM.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 10:44:19-E DT Date: 10 Jun 1986 10:34-EDT From: Robert.Cohn@sam.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: Undergrad computing facilities Message-Id: <518798080/rc@sam.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 09-Jun-86 23:54 Cornell, when I graduated last year, used an IBM 4341 for general accounts available to everyone. This machine was also used for some intro courses. The upper level CS classes used two 750's. There were also a lot of Macs which were available for the first two introductory classes as well as general use. No lab fees were charged for any computer use. Zdartmouth..1 10-Jun-86 09:38:12-EDT,2479;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from andrew.cmu.edu by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 09:38:08-E DT Received: by andrew.cmu.edu (4.12/3.15) id ; Tue, 10 Jun 86 09:37:22 ed t Received: FROM ishmael VIA queuemail ID ; Tue, 10 Jun 86 09:36:16 EDT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 86 09:35:58 EDT From: ms1g@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Steven Sherman) X-Andrew-Scribeformat: Yes To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: undergrad computer facilities Cc: I'm not a recent graduate, but am a recent employee of Dartmouth. Let's see, the campus computation center provides DCTS (Dartmouth College Time Sharing) on two large Honeywell mainframes, a Vax/Unix, a Vax/VMS, and an IBM/CMS (I forgot which size). You get an account on DCTS when you matriculate (that is, when you show up on campus). This applies to everyone, from freshman to professo r to janitor. Courses that use the Honeywell get additional accounts that students use for that course work. At the moment, accounts on the other machines are free for the asking. A limited number (maybe 100?) of public Macintoshes (all over campus) can also be used (but you must supply your own software and disposa bles). Entering freshman are strongly encouraged, but not required, to buy a Macintosh. Although the computation center is complaining about costs, the mainframe resour ces are treated much like a library -- you use as much as you need. This includes, for example, CPU time, disk space, printer (both line printer and laser printer) and net access. I do not know how long this situation will remain (an example of the shift is the requirement that students must purchase their own software for the Macintosh whereas the comp center used to buy all software for the mainf rame.) No doubt, Bill Arms could elaborate on any of this if you needed it. The response time for all systems varied a lot. The main honeywell machines were good so long as no system-building CS courses were on that term (especially during project building time). The VMS machine is constantly running statistics packages which slows it down. The Unix box varies again with the course loads -- the day before an assignment is due it is bad, other times barely tolerable. I have never used the IBM system at Dartmouth. There are waiting lines for the public Macintoshes. Zflorida.Tech.3 3-Jun-86 10:35:21-EDT,663;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from H.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 3 Jun 86 10:35:19-EDT Date: 3 Jun 1986 10:31-EDT From: Rick.Busdiecker@h.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: Types of campus networks Message-Id: <518193120/rfb@h.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 02-Jun-86 17:36 I spent a year at the Florida Institute of Technology in Melbourne, FL. The systems there were a PDP-11 for the Intro to Programming (BASIC) course and a Vax-11/780 (VMS) for all other classes. You only got an account if you had a computer course, but no fee was charged. Rick Zlehigh..1 3-Jun-86 15:14:43-EDT,857;000000000001 Received: ID ; Tue 3 Jun 86 15:14:40-EDT Date: Tue 3 Jun 86 15:14:40-EDT From: Jeffrey Miller Subject: bb post To: mbl@C.CS.CMU.EDU Message-ID: <12211926296.7.J-MILLER@C.CS.CMU.EDU> Lehigh has 1 dec-20 for non-scientific stuff (history, word processing, etc.) and one Cyber for everything else. Free accounts on either to anyone who wants them (if you have a good reason for using them). There are also a lot of Zenith and IBM PC's scattered around campus for anyone to use. They are thinking of getting rid of the Dec-20 and replacing it with something else since DEC is no longer supporting/maintaining them since fixing Vaxes is much more profitable. All universities without their own maintainance people will also probably be getting rid of their dec-20's. J-M ------- Zlehigh2..1 11-Jun-86 09:24:12-EDT,994;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from bs.sei.cmu.edu by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Wed 11 Jun 86 09:24:10-E DT Received: by bs.sei.cmu.edu (4.12/4.7) id ; Wed, 11 Jun 86 09:24:19 edt; Message-Id: <8606111324.AA11135@bs.sei.cmu.edu> Date: 11 Jun 1986 09:24:16-EDT From: Fred.Cohen@bs.sei.cmu.edu Subject: computer facilities for undergrads Apparently-To: bboard@c Lehigh also has microcomputers available at no cost to the undergrads including MacIntosh, IBM-PC, Zenith-PC, intel-PC, intel unix based systems, and is installing a campus wide net to every room in the school. They use site licensed SW, and there is no charge (except for purchase of a PC if you want it in your room). USC has a policy whereby you purchase $1000 worth of computer time for $100 each semester. Additional time may be bought at the same rate, but only in those chunks with no refundables. You can get time on 370 under VM, DEC-20 under TOPS-20, or VAX under VMS. Zlisbon..1 10-Jun-86 04:13:15-EDT,3562;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ohm.ECE.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 04:13:14- EDT Received: by ohm.ECE.CMU.EDU (4.12/4.7) id ; Tue, 10 Jun 86 04:06:25 edt; Date: Tue, 10 Jun 86 04:06:25 edt From: Antonio Leal Message-Id: <8606100806.AA23763@ohm.ECE.CMU.EDU> To: london@c Subject: computer survey Okay, you asked for it :-). I come from Lisbon, Portugal. I graduated from a 5-year EE program in 1980, and did my master's in 1984, both at Instituto Superior Tecnico. That's the engineering school of the Technical University of Lisbon. I.S.T. itself has about four or five thousand (make it 5) undergrads, in Chemical (~1000), Mechanical (~1000), Civil (~1500) and Electrical(~1500) engineering [also metalurgical, mining, and naval, but I bunched them with the major groups]. Since you ask about fees, I must explain that almost all superior education is state-owned, and virtually free (unless you count a registration charge of about $5 per semester). At I.S.T., accounting is done just to keep usage within limits alotted (also internal book-keeping, I believe). In 1984, I.S.T. changed over (finally!) from a single IBM 360 that took card decks, to a bunch of VAXes. This was part of a University-wide deal, that included the schools of Economics, Agronomy and others (law, medicine, hist/lit are Classical U.). At I.S.T. itself there are three 780s and two 750s, running VMS and connected with DECnet. They serve an Intro to Computing course, school-wide, plus specific course-loads (e.g. Pascal programming for EEs, some CivE and MechE calculation programs, Spice runs for electronics courses, etc.). Additional info you didn't ask for (but I will tell you anyhow, since you got me started :-): - IBMs are almost strictly for the banks. I'm only aware of one (at Faculdade de Ciencias, a 370 I think). Others have 750s (Economics of another group), and Data General MV 10000, for instance. - I worked at a research institute connected to I.S.T. We had an MV 8000, plus two 750s. I also tried a uVax II. My observations about workload: -- The MV 8000 has a good CPU, but the scheduling software is slightly bananas ("if it consumes CPU, give it more, maybe it'll go away"). 20 users, using CPU intensive software (even the word processor was CPU intensive...) could do a lot of type-ahead. -- The 750 (with 3 meg memory) is good for 10 users. 15 users, and it starts to page and run out of process slots (especially if you create subprocesses to do your compilations ...). With more memory it should be okay. -- The uVax: I used it with 2 meg memory and two 70 meg disks (plus DECnet running over RS-232 at 19200 baud [it works !]). I benchmarked it at about 15-30% better than the 750, which makes sense ( 1 750 = 0.7 780; 1 uVax II = 0.9 780). I think that a uVax, loaded with 16 tty ports, 6-8 megs of memory and a couple of 450 Meg RA-81 drives would make a fine system for 15 users, as long as you don't try to attach a graphics screen to it. I think graphics displays and window managers are strictly single user business, since the graphics consume so much CPU, and you don't want your mouse or screen repaints interrupted. A couple of 70 Meg disks, tape cartridge (96 Meg), 2 to 4 meg and net connection would do fine, thanks :-). Wow. Long winded ... I suppose you don't want more of my opinions, but feel free to ask for any details. Tony Zmiami..1 10-Jun-86 15:21:57-EDT,1806;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from MAPS.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 15:21:55- EDT Date: Tuesday, 10 June 1986 15:16:07 EDT From: Brian.Yamauchi@maps.cs.cmu.edu To: mbl@c.cs.cmu.edu Subject: Undergrad Computer Facilities Message-ID: <1986.6.10.19.2.35.Brian.Yamauchi@maps.cs.cmu.edu> I'm still an undergrad here at CMU, but I am familiar with the computing facilities at Miami University (Ohio). My father teaches there, and I used their computer in high school and junior high (yes, its that old). Miami's primary academic (undergrad, grad, and faculty) system is a Hewlett-Packard 3000 minicomputer running MPE (HPs Operating System). All students have access, but there is a catch. There are no individual student accounts. Instead, there is a general account STUDENT.MIAMI which all students can access. Files there are temporary, and unaccessed files are deleted after one week. Each course also has a single account for the students. For example: Systems Analysis 111 has the SAN111 account. All students do their work in the same account. For security, individual files have lockwords. Disk space is also rather limited. Some of the departments also have their own computers, micros mostly, but some PDP minis. Administration has an IBM mainframe -- either a 360 or a 370, I'm not sure which, that they rent from IBM. The school also recently set up a few public PC clusters with mostly IBM PCs and also a few Apples, TRS-80s, and maybe a couple Macs. Miami was recently given an NCR computer (either a mainframe or a mini), and I'm not sure what they are planning to do with it. I'm certain that the average student will not have access to it. Hope this helps. Brian Yamauchi yamauchi@maps Zmit..1 10-Jun-86 10:15:55-EDT,4280;000000000001 Return-Path: <@po2.andrew.cmu.edu:ao06@ANDREW.CMU.EDU> Received: from po2.andrew.cmu.edu by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 10:15: 53-EDT Received: by po2.andrew.cmu.edu (4.12/3.15) id ; Tue, 10 Jun 86 10:15:2 7 edt Received: FROM mccandless VIA queuemail ID ; Tue, 10 Jun 86 10:14:11 EDT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 86 10:13:55 EDT From: ao06@andrew.cmu.edu (Ayami Ogura) X-Andrew-Scribeformat: Yes To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: undergrad computer facilities Cc: I am a recent graduate of MIT, but I was not a computer science major and most of my@* computer work was done with Project Athena, so I can only give you a very genera l idea @* of what we had there. First, and most recent, is Athena. It was opened to the general undergraduate community@* in March 1985 or thereabouts. Before that, a few accounts were given to student s in@* classes that were working on specific educational software programs. In those days,@* we had a timesharing system (Unix) running on VAX 780's. Athena converted vario us@* classrooms and closets around campus, set up some VT100's, PC-Xt's, and a few@* VS100's in each, and called them "clusters." Unlike many campus computer networ ks,@* Athena has no "central" computer area, although all but one cluster is restricte d to students@* doing coursework. At the present time, Athena is working on converting to works tation@* format, and is deploying MicroVaxes to selected clusters and dormitories/fratern ities.@* Eventually, every dormitory and fraternity will have an Athena link. Athena is still free, although some documentation may be charged for in the future. Printouts@* are also free, but for "nice" printouts on the Xerox9700, the costs is 5 cents per page. Since@* Athena is basically an experiment in computer applications to education, I don't know if there@* are any plans to give general access to the system to graduate students. Any faculty member@* can get an account, however. Before Project Athena came along, there were several smaller networks running around campus.@* The graduate computer science students usually worked in "Tech Square" which had several@* systems running either on Vaxes or PDP11's, maybe some others. Many undergradua tes and@* non-CS folk would often "borrow" someone's account, mainly because they could get output@* on the Dover. Operating systems were the ubiquitous Unix, TOPS-20, some others, which@* I can't remember. Computer Science undergraduates, while in specific courses had access to two systems.@* One was a system of linked (?) Chipmunks, which was used by the introduction to computer@* structures course. They were used for Scheme programming homework. A few Elect rical@* Engineering courses had lab programs running on the Chipmunks as well. The software@* programming lab course worked on a TOPS-20 system running on a PDP-11. Accoun ts@* on this latter system were also "lent out" at times for the less fortunate. As far as I know, no@* "lab fees" were collected for these courses. For the general public, there were the Information Services system and the Stude nt@* Information Processing Board system. I know next to nothing about these, except that@* they are now in their decline since the advent of Project Athena. The Informati on@* Services system was open to anyone who wanted an account and there was a fee involved.@* SIPB services were open to any interested student, but they tended to have a reputation of@* being a "hacker" community which apparently didn't appeal to many people, so they have @* always been fairly small. Finally, some of the research groups and faculty had computers, and students working@* for such groups or faculty would have access to those. The Undergraduate Resear ch@* Opportunities Program at MIT made this easier than it might seem. I don't know that I've given you any information that you could enter into a survey such@* as the one you sent, but I hope this helps anyway. Ayami Ogura (I'm new here, and I'm working for Chris Neuwirth on be2 documentation) Zmit2..1 10-Jun-86 13:33:26-EDT,999;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from IUS2.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 13:33:22- EDT Date: 10 Jun 1986 13:26-EDT From: Ralph.Hyre@ius2.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: undergrad computer facilities Message-Id: <518808384/ralphw@ius2.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 09-Jun-86 23:57 MIT (1981-85) 'Anybody' could get a $50.00 request account on Multics' through the SIPB (Student Information Processing Board) EECS dept. used DEC 2060, two Vaxes (Unix & VMS) added later 1985 Athena accounts were available, currently in timesharing (several Vax & some IBM mainframes) mode, switching to workstations (still Unix) soon. Similar to Andrew in several respects. In general not as many cycles as CMU. In EECS we ate the 2060 for breakfast. (load average around 20, occassionally over 100 before crashing) No fees, but tuition was so high they could've hidden it easily. Zmoravian..3 3-Jun-86 11:08:18-EDT,925;000000000011 Return-Path: Received: from K.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 3 Jun 86 11:08:17-EDT Date: 3 Jun 1986 11:02-EDT From: Barbara.Staudt@k.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: Types of campus networks Message-Id: <518194956/bjs@k.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 02-Jun-86 17:37 Mitch, I attended a small liberal arts college as an undergraduate. I graduated in 1981. We used a PDP 11/70 running Unix. Accounts were given to students who were registered for courses requiring use of the computer. There was no extra fee or funny money involved in use of the computer. They are currently exploring alternatives to this computing environment, but with a small budget their choices are rather limited. I would appreciate hearing what you learn so I can pass the information along to them. Thanks, Barb 3-Jun-86 17:12:04-EDT,470;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 3 Jun 86 17:12:0 3-EDT Date: Tuesday, 3 June 1986 17:09:57 EDT From: Barbara.Staudt@gandalf.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitch Subject: Re: Types of campus networks Message-ID: <1986.6.3.21.8.37.Barbara.Staudt@gandalf.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <12211904143.39.MBL@C.CS.CMU.EDU> Mitch, The college I attended is Moravian College. Barb Zoxford..2 2-Jun-86 21:26:36-EDT,713;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from H.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Mon 2 Jun 86 21:26:35-EDT Date: 2 Jun 1986 21:21-EDT From: Martin.Stacey@h.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: Types of campus networks Message-Id: <518145717/mks@h.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 02-Jun-86 17:36 Mitch, When I was an undergraduate at Oxford from 1980 to 1983, the undergraduates weren't allowed access to the University computation centre. Those of us who took computing courses as part of our undergraduate practical requirements learnt BASIC on micros with BASIC wired in. Fortunately I survived this experience. Martin. Zqueens.Canada.1 10-Jun-86 12:22:53-EDT,1123;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from SPICE.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 12:22:51 -EDT Date: 10 Jun 1986 12:07-EDT From: Carlos.Bhola@spice.cs.cmu.edu To: mbl@c Subject: undergrad computing facilities Message-Id: <518803675/bhola@spice.cs.cmu.edu> I don't know if you are interested in Canadian universities, but I can tell you about Queen's university there. Queen's is the Canadian Harvard and has about 11K students. Its primary facility is owned by the university's Computing Centre and basically, any student could have an account on their systems. They have two IBM 4341s, two IBM 3081s, two VAX 11/780s, etc. Then there are many departments that have their own facilities. these include Computing and Information Sciences (where I was) and it has 2 780s, 3 750s, many smaller Vaxen, many workstations, and some special processors (FPS machines, etc.). They are in the process of building their own multiprocessor environments. Once again, any Computing student - and those affiliated with the department could have an account. Okay? -- Carlos. Zstanford..1 13-Jun-86 22:01:30-EDT,531;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from CIVE.RI.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Fri 13 Jun 86 22:01:29- EDT Date: 13 Jun 1986 21:58-EDT From: Esfandiar.Bandari@cive.ri.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: Undergrad computing facilities Message-Id: <519098330/bandari@cive.ri.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 09-Jun-86 23:52 I know that Stanford has at least 3 Dec20's and intends to by more. Each department, of course may have its own computers. Zsyracuse..1 10-Jun-86 10:35:05-EDT,596;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ML.RI.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 10:35:03-ED T Date: 10 Jun 1986 10:29-EDT From: Craig.Knoblock@ml.ri.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: undergrad computer facilities Message-Id: <518797772/cak@ml.ri.cmu.edu> I graduated from Syracuse University in '84. When I was there they used a TOPS-10 and two IBM 4341s. They have since replaced the 10 with a number of vaxen (I'm not sure which one). The university would give accounts to all students and there was no lab fee. - Craig Ztechnion.Israel.1 10-Jun-86 13:03:26-EDT,1506;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ohm.ECE.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 13:03:25- EDT Received: by ohm.ECE.CMU.EDU (4.12/4.7) id ; Tue, 10 Jun 86 13:02:31 edt; Date: Tuesday, 10 June 1986 13:02:29 EDT Sender: Jacques.Benkoski@ohm.ECE.CMU.EDU From: Jacques.Benkoski@ohm.ece.cmu.edu To: mbl@c.cs.cmu.edu Subject: Undergrad computers Message-Id: <1986.6.10.16.51.28.Jacques.Benkoski@ohm> I don't if this is of any interest to you but I recently (April '85) gratuaded from the Technion - Israel Institute of Technology Well, all undergrads are required to take at list a course in programming given on cluster of DEC Rainbow's with common printers,hard disks,... CS and EE undergrads usually take a few more courses so that although accounts are given on a course basis, people usually have an account for all their undergrad years. As far as I know the following computers are used: 1 VAX 11/780 for undergrad courses 1 VAX 11/780 for grad research and faculty members 1 VAX 11/750 for grad research 1 IBM 3081 for undergrad courses 1 IBM 4341 for administrative purposes various PDP-11, PC's, Apples, Workstations (Applicon, Hp, Mentor) used in specia classes like digital signal processing, VLSI design, control analysis, and so on. no special-fee is required for any of these. MicroVax didn't reach us by that time but I heard they got a few now. Hope you are satisfied but feel free to ask questions. Zunivmass..1 10-Jun-86 09:27:10-EDT,982;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 09:27: 09-EDT Date: Tue, 10 Jun 86 09:21:49 EDT From: Peter.Su@GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU To: mbl@c Subject: Computing facilities I'm not a grad student, but I have ben in contact with the undergrad facilities at UMASS Amherst. When I was there, they had a Cyber 175 and a Cyber (Number which I forget, maybe 730). Anyway, the whole campus used this one poor computer, and this includes faculty and staff in other depts like physics, math etc. You could only get an account if you had a course or something, I think. And they were free. The only restriction was on things like disk space and the number of batch jobs you could run. There were many epople who bootlegged accounts out of the administration, that's how I (shame!) got on the machine. I think they just recently got a screen editor for the thing...heh. That's all I remember, Pete Zunivmich..1 10-Jun-86 10:55:59-EDT,1516;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from SPEECH2.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 10:55: 53-EDT Date: 10 Jun 1986 10:44-EDT From: Richard.Lerner@speech2.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: undergrad computer facilities Message-Id: <518798657/lerner@speech2.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 09-Jun-86 23:48 I graduated from Univ of Michigan in '82 and do not know what they are using now. The Computer Center then used an Amdahl 470 v8 which was a more powerful version of IBMs then largest mainframe. An account was given for each class in which you were expected to do computing. Accounts were not generally available for outside work although you could get accounts for independent research with a faculty member. There were no fees associated with the use of computing facilities. Other notes: The operating system was MTS (Michigan Terminal System) developed at UofM. They were just developing a mail system in my last years there. They were just starting to use screen editors, and in fact had only printing terminals when I first arrived. They used cards (although with fast turn around) for the intro course. Writing papers on the system was tolerated but playing games was not, on any accont. I believe things have changed a lot there since, however. Although I noticed two years ago that they had just bought new "state of the art" card punches. Rick. Zunivnebraska..1 10-Jun-86 08:24:11-EDT,1064;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from bs.sei.cmu.edu by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 08:24:09-E DT Received: by bs.sei.cmu.edu (4.12/4.7) id ; Tue, 10 Jun 86 08:24:50 edt; Date: Tuesday, 10 June 1986 08:24:47 EDT From: Peggy.Wright@sei.cmu.edu To: mbl@c.cs.cmu.edu Subject: academic computing Message-Id: <1986.6.10.12.15.44.Peggy.Wright@sei.cmu.edu> Hello, I just read your message on the bb. I have recently been teaching at the University of Nebraska - Omaha. There we use a network of two VAX 11/780s. It is the university policy that there should be no charge for student use of the computing facilities. Student accounts are not given to everyone, but any teacher may request accounts for all the students in any class. There is also a lab room full of micros (Rainbows, I think, maybe 15 or 20 of them) which are accessible to any student who wants to walk in and use them (again, no charge, - during busy times, they might ask someone to produce an id card to prove they are enrolled). Zunivsc..1 10-Jun-86 09:09:02-EDT,816;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from SAM.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 09:09:00-E DT Date: 10 Jun 1986 08:59-EDT From: Ping-Sheng.Tseng@sam.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: Undergrad computing facilities Message-Id: <518792390/pstseng@sam.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: Mitchell B. London's bboard message of 09-Jun-86 23:54 I know the case of University of Southern California. Lab fee : $70 to $100 per semester. Machine : 2 DEC-20 runing Top-20 for most undergraduate courses. There are some VAX 750s and IBM PCs supporting graduate courses of CS and EE, (they have a large enrollment of master students). These machines runing VMS or BSD UNIX. No workstations of any kind for students' course. Zunivsc2..1 10-Jun-86 11:46:09-EDT,1233;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from UNH.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 11:46:07-E DT Date: 10 Jun 1986 11:39-EDT From: Hank.Walker@unh.cs.cmu.edu To: Mitchell B. London Subject: Re: undergrad computer facilities Message-Id: <518801999/dmw@unh.cs.cmu.edu> My brother works at the USC comp center and was an undergrad there. They basically have one of everything from PCs to large IBM, laser printers, etc. They have relatively small terminal rooms distributed around campus (size of Margaret Morrison terminal room). The engineering school has its own comp center with VAXs, 10s, 20s, Data General, and maybe Prime. The CS and EE departments have their own private research machines. This does not include USC-ISI which of course has a lot of machines. They charge REAL MONEY for accounts. You have to pay something like 10% of the real cost, which amounts to $250-500 per semester. This leads to what my brother calls "vampirism" where hackers discover an unused account (student dropped class), log into it, and suck the money out. There level of primitiveness may have changed, but I doubt it, since USC exists solely to suck money from students. Zvirginia.Tech.3 2-Jun-86 22:28:07-EDT,2356;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from faraday.ECE.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Mon 2 Jun 86 22:28: 06-EDT Received: by faraday.ECE.CMU.EDU (4.12/4.7) id ; Mon, 2 Jun 86 22:20:33 edt; Date: 2 Jun 1986 22:06-EST From: David.Maynard@faraday.ECE.CMU.EDU Subject: Re: Types of campus networks To: Mitchell.B..London. Message-Id: <518148374/dpm@faraday> In-Reply-To: Mitchell.B..London.'s bboard message of 02-Jun-86 18:17 Mitch, I graduated from Virginia Tech (VPI) in '85. VPI has three main computing resources. 1. IBM Mainframe - They change the model every year or so, but when I left they had a 3083. The mainframe is used for administration, research, and teaching. Fewer undergrad courses are using the big machines as more micros come into use (see below). Student accounts are available on a per-course basis, although the EE dept gives students permanent accounts which are supposed to be used for course work only. Adminstrative uses occupy about 1/2 of the cycles. The CMU admin could learn a lot from VPI about how to computerize their course scheduling and record keeping. 2. VAX 11/78X - Two 785s are maintained by the computing center for undergrad CS and Math courses. The CS dept maintains at least 4 others for research and graduate courses. Most of the vaxen run VMS with a couple of the research machines running Unix. 3. Microcomputers - VPI requires all engineering and CS majors to buy a personal computer. Engineers are required to buy an IBM or compatible (about a 50% discount is available through the school). CS majors are required to buy a Unix micro (last year it was the Mac/XL running System V--They got a great deal on them when Apple discontinued the Lisa, about $3K for a 10Mbyte unix box including software). Public PC clusters are all over campus (IBM PCs) and can be used by anyone for anything (noncommercial). Software is available to be checked out. VPI was the first public university to require students to buy PC's. IBM reportedly plans to install a token ring to link the dorms and academic buildings. Background: VPI has about 21,000 students, of which about 5,000 are engineers and 150 are CS majors. Hope this helps, David Maynard (dpm@faraday) Zyale..1 10-Jun-86 00:32:00-EDT,3582;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from H.CS.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Tue 10 Jun 86 00:31:56-EDT Date: Tue, 10 Jun 86 00:21:40 EDT From: Olin.Shivers@H.CS.CMU.EDU To: mbl@c Subject: Computing facilities at Yale I graduated from Yale in '83. We had a Dec20, and a 750 for the majors, running Tops20, and Berklix. These machines were run by the CS department. The grad students had their own Dec20, and some other stuff. Some classes were taught on these machines; majors could get accounts. There was no accounting -- it was all 'free'. All us CS majors used Scribe, Imagen laser printers, C, Maclisp, T, and Bliss. Emacs was available, but everyone preferred the Yale screen editors, Z and ice. We weren't supposed to use the laser printers, but no one really cared. Major accounts were for just hacking around -- writing papers, writing programs, etc. Every time you took a class, you'd get an additional account just for the duration of the class. My freshman and sophomore year, all the majors got accounts on this special 11/45. All the terminals connected to it were bitmaps. The memory for the bitmaps was written by a dedicated 11/03 used as a display processor, and hacked to act as a terminal emulator. The bitmap memory was dual ported, and could also be mapped into the address space of programs running on the 11/45, so you could play fun games with it. If you're familiar with the Knight TVs at MIT, you've got the picture. The 11/45 ran Unix. This system was on its last legs in '79, and by the end of my sophomore year wash mothballed. There were also some random IBM mainframes and a bunch (6?) of 11/750s run by the University Computer Center just for classes. I never used them, since they were really only used for the low level classes that the masses took. The CS department also aqcuired some more Vaxes -- a mix of 750s and 780s -- and used them for classes, grad students, that kind of thing. They also acquired an FPS number cruncher, and a Pyramid mainframe. Undergrads did not use these. My junior year, the CS department acquired about 20 Apollos workstations for the grad students. 1Kx800 bitmap, 68000 processor, 2 megs of real memory, virtual memory hardware, and networked together, and connected to the departmental chaosnet. Undergrads with connections -- like me -- tended to weasel access to these things. My senior year, the CS department bought a lot more of these machines. Maybe a hundred. These were installed as a network subdomain called the "zoo" and used for teaching high level undergraduate classes. The compiler class, for instance, built compilers in Scheme on the Apollos. There was sort of a tiered status system. The professors and grad students got the best stuff. The CS majors did pretty well, particularly those that distinguished themselves from the herd. Since not that many people majored in CS at Yale, there was some flexibility in the system for us. People who took real CS classes, like theory or compilers, came next. Last of all came English majors taking intro classes. Resources tended to be allocated according to this hierarchy. Coming to CMU was kind of a letdown. The load average on the mainframes was higher, and Apollos make Perqs look sick. The average Yale CS undergrad had a *much* nicer computer environment in '83 than the average CMU CS grad student. But times change. We've flushed the Perqs, more or less, and the department is beginning to get flooded with nice workstations. Finally. -Olin @pop [PHOTO: Recording terminated Sun 15-Jun-86 6:53PM] HERE IS A LATE ADDENDUM: ----------------------- @type zunivcal.davis 16-Jun-86 11:09:05-EDT,1816;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ISL1.RI.CMU.EDU by C.CS.CMU.EDU with TCP; Mon 16 Jun 86 11:09:02- EDT Date: Mon, 16 Jun 86 11:07:50 EDT From: Christopher.Young@ISL1.RI.CMU.EDU To: mbl@c I hope this you can still use this. It took a little while to confirm the some of the information here (the inventory of the cc facilities). At the University of California at Davis, the computer center has: 1 b7800 (Burroughs) mainframe (admin) (and runs Cande) 3 VAX11/785 running VMS4.4 4 VAX11/750 running 4.2bsd 4 PDP11/70 running 2.9bsd 20 DEC rainbow PC running MSDOS 20 Macintosh Plus These are all for general use (except the b7800), and there was no special fee (though each student was alotted a certain limited amount of computing power per quarter (cpu use + disk space + misc. charges ..."ea" accounts). It was also possible to purchase account that one could pay for. Also, students were eligible for yearly accounts for research projects (which were associated with more computing time than the ea accounts for all 3 quarters combined were). For ea accounts, each student was alotted a certain amount of computer time by taking the state grant of educational use of computers funds and dividing it up among students. It came out to around $30 per quarter, with very cheep prices. Accounting was quite weird. The computer science dept. owns some suns, and Electrical engineering owns an hp3000 and Mech. Eng. owns a Vax 11/780 running VMS. These are limited to the department. I am also aware of at least 2 pdp 11/34's running RSX or RSTS not in a computer related dept. Engineering has some LSI's and pdp 8's floating around too. There are a number of other computers floating around campus as well, including PCs and pdps. Possibly even some more Vaxen. @pop [PHOTO: Recording terminated Wed 18-Jun-86 10:15AM] -------