Message-Id: <IYcc9dy00WBbI0ocd8@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 89 14:33:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Koenigsberg <ckk+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/postman/CampusLists/cmu/market.dl@andrew.cmu.edu,
        Harry.Bovik@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: LONG Summary: buying a TV

Thanks to all who sent me their notes about TV buying. It looks like a
lot of people have bought TV's! Also, you can look in the Library online
system for the index among magazines of Consumer Reports articles, and
then view the articles on microfilm in the basement of Hunt Library,
which is fun.

So far, after reading all these notes and looking briefly at Consumer
Reports, I am currently leaning towards buying a LOGIK brand 19" stereo
"monitor/receiver" from Silo, supposedly made for them by Zenith, for
$299.99 (i.e. $300). This may be stupid, buying a private store label,
but it is made by Zenith, and Consumer Reports suggests that stereo TV's
have overall better quality in their electronics, plus it has
bass/treble/balance controls with separate audio out jacks, and I
couldn't afford any other stereo TV. The suckful sound quality is one of
my biggest dislikes about most TV's. (you might guess I am a sound
person, plus my wife is not a native English speaker and improved sound
quality helps her to understand what people are saying!)

Here is a collection of the responses I received, with names removed to
protect the innocent. Thanks to all! -- Chris Koenigsberg
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I dunno much about TV's.  But I do know that if you want to buy an
appliance, Silo is a good place to do it from, assuming they carry the
brand you want. Don't worry about their prices.  If you see a cheaper
price for one month after your purchase, just bring proof of that price
to Silo and they'll give you a discount to it!!!

I bought a washer and dryer there, after shopping at many places, and I
have been quite pleased with them.

What I do know about tv's is that anything smaller than 19" may not seem
small in the store, but just won't do if you aren't watching it from 2
feet away!
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My roomate recently bought a 20" Sharp from Kelley & Cohen for $289.
It's picture and colours are quite nice and I think that was quite a
good deal. However, the sales guy at K & C will probably try to push
their after sales service contract which, after reading the fine print
and comparing with the existing tube warranty, I didn't think was 
necessary.
As far as brand names go I personaly prefer, in the following order :
Sony, Mitsubishi and then Sharp. The Sony Trinitron's colours are the
best I have seen.
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My experience:

1. Avoid RCA XL100 19". I had one, it failed in ~20 months. It seemed to
be a design flaw. Seems that the "guns" that form the picture (one red,
one green, one blue) had some sort of sheathing wrapped around them to
keep them from shorting out. This sheathing cracked and peeled and the
result was a screen that flashed blue, red and green at random. ~$300
down the drain. The same thing happened to a friend of mine with the
same set. He then bought another, more top-of-the line RCA (glutton for
punishment) and it emitted a high-pitched whine which he couldn't hear.
It drove his wife crazy, though and when I heard it I understood why. I
guess it was a convenient way to antagonize his missus: "What noise,
dear?" 

2. I bought a 19" NEC monitor from J C Penny. (It says "J. C. Penny" on
the front, but the technical doc is from NEC, and all the parts are
stamped NEC) That was 4 years ago. Never a problem. Highly recommended.
It has survived 3 moves.

>From my sister, who's in retail sales:

1. Best Quality, lowest price, buy the Korean made Gold Star. The main
drawback is remote control is not available. They retail (19") for about
$230 and are well worth it. She's owned one for roughly 5 years without
any problems.

2. If you must have a remote, figure that it will cost $60.00 extra. 

Never buy the extended warrenty. They are a rip-off. On a $300 item, a
$100 insurance policy doesn't make sense.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Try going to SILO either in Monroeville or near the Century III mall. 
They have very good prices and offer very good service plans.  Both
Silos are about half a mile away from the respective malls.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before you go to Kelly & Cohen ...
My understanding is that K&C receives many "damaged" equipment; for
example, if a truck is involved in an accident, and boxes are dented,
then the equipment is packed in new boxes.  Or boxes which suffer water
damage are similarly reboxed and sold through K&C.  I warn you that this
is heresay; I suppose if I had hard evidence then I'd take it to the
Better Business Bureau.

Before their transformation, I had good experiences with Sears
equipment. The quality is usually above average, and repairs can be done
without mailing your stuff to another city.  And the prices are
competitive.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cable company is Pittsburgh TeleCommunications, Inc. (PTCI), and
they're slime.  The customer service and sales number is 771-8100; be
prepared to wait on hold quite a while.

I have no specific recommendations about televisions, but I do want to
put in a bad word about Kelly and Cohen.  Whenever I go to Kelly and
Cohen, I end up mad, because I can't get any salesmen to wait on me
unless my husband is standing there with me.  They just aren't
interested in talking to me, presumably because I'm a woman.  

On the other hand, I've bought a number of small appliances (including a
television) from The Appliance Store, near the corner of 5th and Penn. 
Like all the discount places, they have reasonable prices, but salesmen
who know little or nothing and are on commission.  But, they are willing
to talk to me, rather than waiting until my husband shows up.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kelly & Cohen is OK for prices BUT THEIR SERVICE SUCKS!!! Make sure that
anything you but there can be services elsewhere. SErvice through K&C is
expensive and very slow.

SILO and The Appliance Store have reasonable prices, too. K-Mart, Zayre
and Ames sometimes carry good sets under private label. If you can find
out who made the private label set, sometimes you can get a really good
piece of equipment at a good price. I haven't paid attention lately, so
I've lost track of who's making what for whom these days.

I've no idea what the good equipment is at present for the same reason.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consumer's Reports (available in Hunt, reference section) specializes in
this stuff.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The local cable company is TCI.  I think basic service runs about
$15/month; movie channels are about $10 each.  I'm not sure what
installation costs; they occasionally run specials where they'll install
it for free if you get a movie channel.  (You could, of course, drop the
movie channel the next month....)

>From your post it doesn't seem likely, but just in case you're planning
to hook a VCR up to it, be warned that TCI uses a two cable system,
which means you get a box with a switch; when the switch is in the first
position you get half the channels, and when it's in the other position
you get the other
half of the channels.  This can be a real nuisance in general, but is
especially bad if you have a VCR where you can't somehow merge those two
signals.  (Radio Shack sells a box that lets you merge the signals, but
I'm not sure it always works.)

If you go without cable, you should be able to get two or three local
network affiliates (channels 2, 4, and 11), a couple of local
independents (22 and 53), and the two PBS stations (13 and 16).  There
are parts of Squirrel Hill and Shadyside where this isn't true; your
mileage may vary. But if all you're after is the news and occasional
local programming, you probably don't need cable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTCI is the cable operator in Pittsburgh. They offer several levels of
service. If you aren't into seeing HBO etc., then you can get wired for
around $19 per month (with onetime installation charge -- possibly waved
due to promotions). This low-level service gets all the broadcast
stations, all the Turner broadcasting stations (e.g., CNN, Headline
Service, TNT, TBS), ESPN, MTV, A&E, C-SPAN, and dozens of useless re-run
stations.

I have a Hitachi 13" color TV with remote control. It has an excellent
picture and was top-rated in a recent survey by Consumer Reports. The
sound is sort of weak.

By the way, most cable-ready TVs won't work in Pittsburgh because the
local cable system uses the old high/low channel cabling. In theory, you
could get some sort of splitter box that would put both signals on one
cable -- but it seems like a big hassle just to have remote control.

A 13" screen may be too small for VCR use, but it is just fine for
occasional television viewing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The cable company is called PTCI (which stands for Pittsburgh TCI; TCI
is apparently a national concern).  I think you can also find them in
the phone book under "Pittsburgh Cable".  In any event, call early;
their phones are pretty active and they only have a small call-queue. 
Plus, when they come to hook up your set, they'll tell you to be home on
a certain day and the guy'll show up "between 8:30 and 4".  That's as
good as you're gonna get.

I'm fond of Sony TV's myself, and if you're planning to get cable, you
might as well go the whole yard and get a cable-ready TV (unless you
have or are planning to get a VCR, in which case get a cable-ready VCR
and don't sweat the TV cable-readiness).  [I can explain cable-readiness
if you want.]  The latest thing in TV's is "MTS decoding"; MTS stands
for Multi-Channel Sound.  This means that you can get stereo sound off
the air, and maybe even better stuff in the future.  PTCI is an OK
company; however, don't buy any premium channels just yet (these are
channels you don't normally get, such as HBO, Cinemax, The Movie
Channel, and a couple of others).  PTCI has frequent promos wherein
they'll sell you premium channels for a song, and if you can hold out
for that, you should wait until then.

My favorite store for all this hi-tech stuff is Silo, hands-down. 
(They're everywhere in Pittsburgh).  The salespeople are the usual
I-work-on-commission-and-oh-my-god-there's-a-customer-let-me-at-him
types, but if you don't let that bother you, you can wind up with good
equipment at a good price (don't be afraid to haggle).

The only thing I know about Kelly & Cohen is that I was once there and I
remember that something turned me off of the place.  I can't say what,
but I guess that's not sufficient grounds to recommend you stay away, so
give 'em a shot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
	 Consumer reports has ratings on TV's. You should definitely  look
those up before buying anything. As for stores, Silo, Kelly and Cohen
and The Appliance Store have good prices, but  I don't know about
service.  Kelly and Cohen also will pay you 1.5 times the difference in
price if you can find the model you bought from them advertised at a
lower price anywhere in Pittsburgh within a month of your purchase.
Otherwise, cable-ready and remote are features that you should probably
have, especially if you ever plan to sell the set.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
	I bought a Panasonic set at Pace Warehouse about 2 years ago, and found
that the functionality was almost identical to the Hitachi (sp?) set my
brother bought. The remotes are the same, the controls are the same,
etc. 
	The gist is that many sets are likely to have the same "engine," but
with different brands, and cabinets. Since most warranties are the same
(I assume- I didn't do very much looking into that), I just went and
bought the set at a cut rate, at the warehouse. They even had a rebate
there, I think. All told, I think I saved about $75 going to Pace's. 
	The big difference going to Pace (or Warehouse Club) is that they won't
sell you the maintenance packages that the Appliance Store sells for
about $25 (that you may or may not need). The manufacturer warranties
are always the same.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My parents swear by Zenith, since they had a '59 set that was still
working (although just barely) when I gave it away last year.  The
replacement TV, also a Zenith, has been worry free for 6 years. We are
very happy with a Sony that we bought at a good price at David Weiss, it
has bad reception without an antenae is its only downfall.

You can pick up an analog channel changing 19" Zenith for $200 on sale;
I see them advertised a lot.  Since you plan on cable-izing your TV, you
need not pay for an expensize electronic channel changer.

On the other hand, the modern sets are made with less face surface
surrounding the screen than the old-style sets.  It might be worth
buying a more modern set for its more efficient space (though a 21" TV
is *big* no matter what). If your wife is as interested in style (not
fad, not appearance for appearance sake)
as mine is, you won't have to listen to any "we should have bought..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have any specific recommendations, but there have been two
articles in recent in months in Consumer Reports about big screen TVs
and 19 inch TVs.   They list recommendations there along with
reliability records and options.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I recommend AVOIDING the appliance store at all costs, they regularly
practice Bait-n-Switch.  Keely&Cohan just hires "Mr. Personality" as
sales staff, so finding someone who answers your questions with
knowledge rather than bullshit can be an event for the press.....

I recommend Silo with the acknowledgement that I haven't been there
since Xmas when the majority of the stores just openned.  Their
*brand-spanking-new* sales staff were ALL the most professional I've
ever met.  Those that were recruited from things like Men's clothing
were still very forward about helping you.  If they didn't know the
answer - they asked someone who did, and didn't try to baffle you with
the bullshit!  It's been more-n 6 months, so who knows now - but I felt
the sales help was that - HELPful, not pushy or obnoxious.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My wife and I just bought a Panasonic TV from the Appliance store (your
situation sounds like mine, but I held the line at cable--we just use an
aerial, and the reception is fine).  We payed $299 for a 20 inch color
tv. It works fine, and the picture seems good.  If you're interested, I
can look up the model number.  Check out Consumer Reports for repair
records and recommendations before buying.
------------------------------------------------------------------------