Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1990 10:53-EST 
From: Charles.Krueger@GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU
To: bovik@CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Outdoor Eqpt., Mail Order
Message-Id: <633282787/cwk@GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU>

Here is a compilation of responses I received concerning the purchase
of down coats via mail order.  There is also a lot of good info about
local retailers that are competative with mail order prices, and
information about outdoor equipment suppliers in general.

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The address/phone for REI's  (Recreational Equip. Inc.) mail order
department is:

	P.O. Box 88125
	Seattle, WA  98138-0125
	1-800-426-4840 (inside US, M-F 6am-8pm, Sat 8am-4:30pm,
					Sun 10am-4pm PST)
	1-206-575-3287 (outside US)

They are a co-op with a $10.00 lifetime fee.  If you're a member, you get
yearly dividends based on your purchases for that year.  Dividends can
either be put towards further purchases, or returned for a check.  This is a
good deal if you're buying some big ticket items and/or if you expect to be
buying a lot of stuff over the years.  To become a member, call the
number(s) above.


Another mail order hotshot is Campmor:

	810 Route 17 North
	P.O. Box 977-Q
	Paramus, NJ 07653-0997
	1-800-526-4784 	(orders only, outside NJ)
	201-445-9869	(orders only, inside NJ)
	1-800-525-4784	(customer service and product info)
	Mon.-Fri. 9am-5pm

I've been pleased with Campmor's mail order service, and with REI's store
service (I've never used REI for mail order).

Finally, for weird things like ice axes, I've been in touch with Midwest
Mountaineering (612) 339-3433 (Minnesota), among others.

For a good list of outfitters, Rock and Ice magazine has a page full of
them somewhere on the back pages, and adds can be found in all of the
outdoor/climbing magazines.  I suggest that you call a few; when looking for
another ice axe last year I found that the best price was from a store in
Boulder.

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The Outdoor Experience in shadyside has a reasonable selection, and
will match REI and Campmor prices on like items if you come with catalog
in hand.  The salesperson I had when I bought my camp stove seemed to
really have a good time going through the catalog and knocking $.50 off
here and $1.00 off there...

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The Company Store (ask for phone # from 800 information) in LaCrosse, Wisc.
makes good quality down merchandise in their Wisconsin factory.  Although
famous for their down quilts, I recently purchased a one-piece ski suit from
them (down) which I am delighted with. (I also have a quilt by them which is
great!)  Some of their merchandise is not made in Wisconsin but is imported
and I can't speak for its quality.  The prices at the Company Store are not
dirt cheap but are quite reasonable and the quality is pretty high

-----

I like REI and Campmor. I've ordered quite a bit from both.

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LL Bean 1-800-21-4221

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Hunting/Fishing Type Equipment (not as good as Campmor or REI though)
(I found Cabella's to be more prompt than Gander Mountain.)

Cabella's 1-800-237-4444

Gander Mountain 1-800-558-9410

-----

When I was looking for a down sleeping bag, Outdoor Experience in Shadyside
said that they will match any mail order price. I eventually got my bag from
from Exkursion(Monroeville) for a mail order competive price.

-----

I know that you didn't ask, but if I were buying another down garment
I would probably buy one from Marmot Mountain Works (Grand Junction,
CO).  They are expensive, but they seem to be the best readily
available products around.  If there are any better jackets, I suspect
that they come from even smaller companies like Feathered Friends (in
Seattle) and Crescent Down Works (location unknown).

The next batch of companies I would consider include Patagonia, the
North Face, and other high end outdoor clothing manufacturers.  These
companies make rugged garments that will last many years without any
problems.  Their stuff is also as expensive as anyones, but as a rule
you get what you pay for.

Discount suppliers (like REI) also offer acceptable gear, but any
little design flaws and less rugged construction are remembered long
after the purchase price has been forgotten.  To be fair, REI has as
generous a service policy as anyone, and they did fix one designed in
flaw in a shell jacket for me.  However, the new models still have the
flaw.

I personally avoid Ski- (as opposed to mountain-) wear companies since
they tend to be overpriced and fashion (rather than function) driven.

There is one more point worth mentioning.  There are usually better
insulating materials than down to use for skiing.  Down jackets tend
to be too warm for the high levels of activity encountered while
skiing.  I would not bring a down jacket along unless the temperatures
(NOT wind chill!) were below 0F, or I was planning to stop for
significant periods of time.  It is usually better to wear wool
sweaters or pile jackets under a weatherproof shell.

I hope that some of this information is helpful to you.

-----

I have gotten really good deals from Burlington Coat Factory behind
Monroeville Mall.  They have a big selection and low prices.

-----

I have used Recreational Equipment Inc. for about 20 years. Their products
frequently meet a range of needs. For example, they sell boots
for afternoon hikes that run around $60 and expedition boots suitable
for K2 that run around $450. In general, they achieve a nice balance
between serving customers who want casual outdoor clothing -- and
serving customers who are very serious campers, climbers, skier, etc.
In the old days, the latter were their only clientele. When they just
had a few stores, one could count on expert advice from their sales
staff. Now, in their more "L.L. Bean/Eddie Bauer" mode, this is not so
true. They have a few stores in the East now, including one near Boston
and one near Washington, D.C. Of course, they also have toll-free catalog
service. They are pretty good about returns, and their catalogs typically
have excellent instructions for sizing and fitting clothing by mail. As
an additional point, REI is a co-op. This means if you join, you get
a year-end dividend proportionate to your purchases etc. In recent years,
the dividend has not applied to sale items. About three times a year,
REI has a special catalog sale; this usually coincides with a special
members-only sale in the stores.

-----

I've ordered recently from REI catalog.  They offer fine things, quick turn
around on delivery (for something like $4.00 on top of any order, they'll
have it shipped UPS or some such from Washington State and it'll arrive in 2
days)

You have to balance PA state tax against shipping/handling.  I've found that
to order from REI (with 2 day turnaround), I'd have to order $150 for
SH+extra = PA tax.

REI offers dividends, i.e. you get some fraction of your yearly purchases
back as a check.

I really don't like the store OUTDOOR EXPERIENCE in Shadyside, BUTTTTTTTT...
They do have items on display (I always shop before buying from any catalog)
ANDDDDDDD, if you take in the REI catalog, they'll match the price of the
same item.  They're short on knowledge & big on image, but their prices are
already the same (or very close) to that in REI.

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EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports) -- as far as I know they are now only
    retail, they stopped mail order a couple of years ago.

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For clothing, you can also try Willi's Ski Warehouse on S.Highland,
just south of Penn Circle near East Liberty.  They sell last years
ski stuff (clothing and equipment) at significantly reduced prices.

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[I would not recommend forwarding this information to Bovik, until you
learn more details]

There are a couple of places that sell outdoor gear seconds.  Some of
the best quality equipment (e.g. Patagonia and Marmot Mountain Works)
is offered at 1/3 to 1/2 half off.  I believe that the companies still
waranty these items, and the defects are minimal.  Plus, I think you
can always return mail order merchandise if you don't like it.  The
biggest drawback is that you have to call them to find out what they
happen to have on hand. and you may have to wait a while to get
exactly what you need.

One of these places may be Real Cheap Sports in (Ventura?) California.
I saw their address and phone number in a magazine recently, and I
seem to recall that they may be affiliated with Patagonia.  There is
definately a company in Nevada that sells seconds.  I'll ask a friend
of mine for a phone number.  By the way, I've seen a few of the things
he has ordered from the latter outfit, and they look like great deals.

Finally, the local stores Exkursion and Outdoor Experience are
extremely eager to make sales, and will negotiate with you if you can
demonstrate that lower prices are available elsewhere.  In particular,
Outdoor Experience has a stated policy of matching any regular price
you show them.  I prefer to shop at Exkursion since they really use
the gear they sell, and I they will probably match prices also.  Both
of these stores carry some excellent clothing, although prices for
down jackets probably runs from about $200 to $450.