Return-Path: Received: from GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa01961; 19 Apr 93 12:21:43 EDT Received: from GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa02815; 19 Apr 93 12:20:58 EDT To: Harry.Bovik@K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU Subject: homes/asbestos Keywords: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 12:20:57 -0400 Message-ID: <2813.735236457@GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> From: David_Redish@GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU :::::::::::::: house/18 :::::::::::::: Return-Path: Received: from HUMMINGBIRD.WARP.CS.CMU.EDU by G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa14973; 12 Apr 93 13:59:29 EDT To: dredish+@cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: asbestos encapsulation Newsgroups: cmu.cs.general In-Reply-To: Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon Cc: Bcc: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 13:58:58 EDT From: segall@HUMMINGBIRD.WARP.CS.CMU.EDU Sender: segall@HUMMINGBIRD.WARP.CS.CMU.EDU I rented a house that had asbestos, and I learned a lot about the subject. You can get pamphlets on the subject from the Allegheny county heath board (they have a special asbestos number), plus there's a testing place near green tree mall that will sample the material, the air, or just about anything else for asbestos & other things. I think they're called Pittsburgh Testing Laboratories, but that might be an old name. I can look it up if you like. Basically, you want to make sure that the stuff is not friable (crumbly), or exposed where it can become disturbed. Solid, intact asbestos does not tend to release fibers, and so is not considered a hazard (though encapsulating it with the right sort of paint can ensure this). Ask the inspector to show you all the places where he found asbestos, and figure out whether it can get out into the air easily. In the place we had, it was a plaster-like coating sprayed onto the basement ceiling rafters, as a fireproof coating over the furnace and water heater. It looked like dirty, moldy wood, and I only noticed it when I had to bang nails into it. But when I looked around, I saw that the stuff had gotten wet in places, and so was crumbling (e.g. over the washer, where I suppose steam had moistened it many times over the years). Thus, it was friable, and had in fact crumbled into a location that was near a heater air intake (there was a hole in the plenum). I figured that the stuff was dispersed throughout the apt, and had gotten into the carpet. Not a huge volume, but enough to give one pause. We moved out. If it's easily painted or wrapped, then that's how they would encapsulate it. This is the safest procedure, since removing it tends to disturb it. I don't know of any contractors, but I think your biggest problems are not getting ripped off, and not getting someone who would do more harm than good by disturbing the stuff. If I were you, I'd get the air tested before and after the encapsulation, just to find out if it made the problem worse. But I tend to be very cautious. The feeling I got from the people I talked to was that as long as you can keep it where it is, it's nothing to worry about. Good luck, Ed :::::::::::::: house/20 :::::::::::::: Return-Path: <@ri.cmu.edu:mm7c+%andrew.cmu.edu@PO4.ANDREW.CMU.EDU> Received: from RI.CMU.EDU by G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa16070; 12 Apr 93 15:42:43 EDT Received: from PO4.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by RI.CMU.EDU id aa14822; 12 Apr 93 15:41:59 EDT Received: by po4.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for David.Redish@cs.cmu.edu; Mon, 12 Apr 93 15:41:53 EDT Received: via switchmail; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 15:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poppy.psy.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 15:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from poppy.psy.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 15:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BatMail.robin.v2.13.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.poppy.psy.cmu.edu.pmax.ul4 via MS.5.6.poppy.psy.cmu.edu.pmax_ul4; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 15:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 15:40:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mitzi E. Morris" To: David.Redish@cs.cmu.edu (David Redish) Subject: Re: asbestos encapsulation In-Reply-To: References: Distribution: pgh talk to Robert L. Ciminel, rc3v+@andrew.cmu.edu. He handles the asbestos abatement program here at CMU, and will do consulting for individuals on the side. He could probably do the encapsulation for you, if that is what you need to do. We bought a house last summer with lots of asbestos on the heating pipes in the basement. Our housing inspector said that is was in OK shape, and the mortgage co. was fine with that. In the fall I got worried about asbestos, and went about trying to get information by first calling all the companies listed in the Yellow Pages, and then talking to the Pbgh EPA, and getting the latest gov't publications on asbestos in the home. What I found was that the asbestos companies tried to convince me that it should all come out, while the gov't et. al. seem to feel that it is better to leave intact asbestos alone than to remove it. You might also try and shop around for mortage companies, if this is possible. We went to West Penn finacial, a mortage broker down in the strip. We dealt with Chuck Spier (I think- I can check with my husband on the name, if you'd like more info). As I understand it, encapsulation makes it more difficult to remove the asbestos later- but I think it depends on just what is used as the encapsulation material. Bob Ciminel should be able to tell you what you want to know. cheers, Mitzi :::::::::::::: house/21 :::::::::::::: Return-Path: Received: from GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa16118; 12 Apr 93 15:47:55 EDT Received: from GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa10709; 12 Apr 93 15:47:20 EDT To: rc3v+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU cc: David.Redish@cs.cmu.edu Subject: asbestos in my home Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 15:47:17 -0400 Message-ID: <10707.734644037@GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> From: David Redish Mitzi Morris mentioned me your name. I am buying a house and there is asbestos on the heating pipes in the basement. The housing inspector said it looked fine but the mortgage company saw the word "asbestos" and demanded that a real asbestos person (licensed? i'm not quite sure) either certify that it is ok or encapsulate it. I called a couple asbestos companies and I'm sure they'll try to convince me to have it all removed. Mitzi suggested I contact you. thanks Dave Redish :::::::::::::: house/22 :::::::::::::: Return-Path: <@GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU,@PO5.ANDREW.CMU.EDU:rc3v+@andrew.cmu.edu> Received: from GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa16465; 12 Apr 93 16:43:29 EDT Received: from PO5.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa10794; 12 Apr 93 16:42:42 EDT Received: by po5.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for David_Redish@gs17.sp.cs.cmu.edu; Mon, 12 Apr 93 16:42:37 EDT Received: via switchmail; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 16:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs1.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 16:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs1.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 16:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.0.1.873.MacMail.0.9.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs1.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax.ul4 via MS.5.6.pcs1.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax_ul4; Mon, 12 Apr 1993 16:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 16:41:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert L. Ciminel" To: David Redish Subject: Re: asbestos in my home Cc: In-Reply-To: <10707.734644037@GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> References: <10707.734644037@GS17.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Dave : I am a certified Asbestos Building Inspector and Management Planner under the federal AHERA (Asbestos Hazard Emergency Response Act) regulation. I think these certifications would satisfy your mortgage company. I can offer a survey of the asbestos in your basement, and recommend what to do with it from a health hazard standpoint. I can also perform some small scale repair/removal, but will recommend an asbestos abateent contractor if the work is more than I can handle. I have done some repair work for Mitzi Morris, but it was from their request. The asbestos in their home was not damaged significantly, but they wanted the material to be totally intact since the space was going to be remodeled. Should you want to set up a time for me to perform a survey, please let me know. I can also be reached at home at 244-8786. bob. :::::::::::::: house/23 :::::::::::::: Return-Path: Received: from GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU by G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa16810; 12 Apr 93 17:15:51 EDT Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 17:07-EDT From: Donald.Lindsay@GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU To: David Redish Subject: Re: asbestos encapsulation Message-Id: <734648836/lindsay@GANDALF.CS.CMU.EDU> In-Reply-To: David Redish's bboard message of 12-Apr-93 12:26 >Any recommendations? Disrecommendations? Do whatever makes the idiots happy, and not one penny more. Breathing asbestos may be a Bad Thing, but breathing fiberglass insulation is about as bad, when you get quantitative. Encapsulation probably means spraying plastic on it so that fragments can't escape and drift around the house in the air. Rather sensible, actually, compared to ripping it out, which *guarantees* asbestos dust in the air. Don :::::::::::::: house/24 :::::::::::::: Return-Path: <@cs.cmu.edu:rutenbar@MONTECARLO.ECE.CMU.EDU> Received: from CS.CMU.EDU by G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa21426; 13 Apr 93 8:49:44 EDT Received: from MONTECARLO.ECE.CMU.EDU by CS.CMU.EDU id aa20521; 13 Apr 93 8:48:31 EDT Received: by montecarlo.ece.cmu.edu (5.54-ECE2/5.17) id AA21431; Tue, 13 Apr 93 08:48:27 EDT From: Rob Rutenbar Message-Id: <9304131248.AA21431@montecarlo.ece.cmu.edu> To: dredish+@cs.cmu.edu Subject: asbestos Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 08:48:25 -0400 Well, interestingly enough, I'm in the middle of selling my house, whereupon the buyer discovered a few places where the asbestos had not been fully removed. The most common locations in old houses are as insulation on basement pipes, esp. heating pipes to the radiators and hot water pipes. Also, some old houses have gas-lit fireplaces that feature a big flat pad of asbestos with tiny little holes in it, out of which the flames burn. Your have two options: removal and encapsulation. Removal is just what it sounds like: they come in, they peel it all off and dispose of it legally. The big problem of course is airborn fibers, so the folks who do it have to take all kinds of halth precautions, and have to cover everything up, and have to vacuum with some industrial-strength appliance to guarantee you that the air quality after removal meets the appropriate federal standards. Encapsulation is simpler and cheaper: they come in and cocoon the stuff in some material that guarantees that the fibers can't escape. If the asbestos is easily accessible this is way cheaper and faster, and I'd guess cleaner. On my house, which has 1 of the above mentioned fireplaces, and a couple of pipes with asbestos on them (as well as a few joints between pipes) the estimates were about $150 for the fireplace, $1000 for removal of the stuff on the pipes, $700 for encapsulation. There are lots of companies in the phone book that do this--your real estate agent should have a list of preferred ones, since on old houses in Pgh this is an extremely common problem. FYI -Rob R. :::::::::::::: house/25 :::::::::::::: Return-Path: Received: from KELLY.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU by G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa22270; 13 Apr 93 10:43:34 EDT Received: from KELLY.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU by KELLY.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU id aa00960; 13 Apr 93 10:43:28 EDT To: David.Redish@cs.cmu.edu cc: kz@cs.cmu.edu Subject: asbestos encapsulation Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 10:43:23 -0400 Message-ID: <958.734712203@KELLY.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Kelly_Zabowski@KELLY.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU David, I feel for you. We just went through this, and it is aweful. I don't mean to be negative, but we decided that we would not buy the house. It started out that the heating ducts were covered with asbestos, which could be encapsulated, then it was found that the chimney flute was all asbestos, which would have to be removed! This costs outrageous amounts of money. The best thing that I can tell you is to make SURE that the company you deal with is EPA certified. When you ask them for certification, many people will give you the certificate from whatever school they went to, to learn about the removal. You want to call the EPA office and make sure that they have been certified with them and that they have been deemed responsible in removing and encapsulating asbestos. If they aren't, you don't want to use them. When asbestos is removed under your request, you are responsible for it to be disposed of in an environmentally correct manner. If the company that you hire does not do this, you can be held responsible!! You really need to be careful. I know that you are just having encapsulated, so you really shouldn't have to worry about the removal, but I am just trying to emphasis that you have to be careful when dealing with this! There is a company in Squirell Hill that seems to be quite reputatable. I can't remember their name, but I will ask my husband, he was dealing with this when we were looking into buying the house that we did not end up buying. I hope this all works out for you! I will let you know the name of the company! --Kelly :::::::::::::: house/26 :::::::::::::: Return-Path: Received: from GLINDA.OZ.CS.CMU.EDU by G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa27036; 13 Apr 93 21:12:30 EDT To: dredish+@cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: asbestos encapsulation Newsgroups: cmu.cs.general In-Reply-To: Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon Cc: Bcc: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 21:11:59 EDT From: mkant@GLINDA.OZ.CS.CMU.EDU Sender: mkant@GLINDA.OZ.CS.CMU.EDU In article you write: > >We are buying a house and the mortgage inspector mentioned the word >asbestos and our mortgage underwriter had a fit. Our housing inspector >said it wasn't a problem but the mortgage company wants us to >"encapsulate" the asbestos. Bovik doesn't seem to have anything on >asbestos. If the mortgage company just wants you to encapsulate the asbestos, you're lucky. Removal is much more expensive. Most mortgage companies require removal. (Removal is expensive because the government's environmental health guys have very strict regs on how it should be removed.) Still, encapsulation isn't cheap either. (Encapsulation essentially covers the asbestos covered pipes with an additional layer to prevent the asbestos fibers from coming out.) The apartment building I live in has asbestos covered pipes, and the landlord has had trouble selling the building in part because removal would cost upwards of $15,000. Incidentally, more asbestos fibers are released during encapsulation and removal than by leaving the insulation undisturbed, Get an estimate of the cost of encapsulation and removal, and use it to reduce your bid for the property. Asbestos comes under the category of things that allow you to get out of a sales agreement, if they weren't disclosed by the owner before signing. --mark