Return-Path: Received: from sherlock.pc.cs.cmu.edu by K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa07400; 28 Jan 93 11:42:34 EST Received: from sherlock.pc.cs.cmu.edu by SHERLOCK.PC.CS.CMU.EDU id aa02426; 28 Jan 93 11:42:08 EST To: bovik@SHERLOCK.PC.CS.CMU.EDU Reply-to: Dennis Grinberg Subject: Equibank merger summary (long) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 11:41:57 EST Message-ID: <2424.728239317@SHERLOCK.PC.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Dennis Grinberg What follows are the responses, both by e-mail and bboard, to the post I made to general about Equibank's merger with Integra. In most cases names of people have been deleted as there were a few people wished their names removed. Thanks to all who responded. It looks like I'll wait and see what happens with Equibank and if they start charging, I'll move over to Dollar. This post is also being sent to Bovik. Followups to discussion please. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Original post: "Free MAC Until '93" -- What's happening? Last week I called the Squirrel Hill branch of Equibank to find out about conversion rates for an ATM transaction I did in London. At that time I asked them what their new policies on ATM usage were as it is now 1993 and they only advertised free ATM usage until '93. They told me something like "That's a good question. I wish we knew." They told me that Equibank is merging with Integra (the papers might already be signed by now), and that sometime in April, Equibank would reopen as an Integra bank. I've always been very happy with Equibank and I've heard nasty things about Integra, least of all, the fact they charge too much for ATM usage. So it's time to start bank shopping. The last research on this subject seems to have been done in September of '91 with Equibank coming out as the clear winner. (In fact, someone posting from that time used to use First Seneca Bank until they merged and became Integra. The poster was considering switching to Equibank.) What I want from a bank is an ATM card that is on the Plus system, free checking, no service charges, free ATM usage on any ATM affiliated with the Plus system in the world and no hassle. It's not the end of the world if I have to leave a minimum balance in order to achieve this. Any ideas? E-mail or followups to discussion please. I'll summarize to discussion. Dennis (dennis@cs.cmu.edu) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If CMU does direct deposit to an Integra bank account Integra will wave MAC and checking account fees. The catch is you have to ask them to - they won't do it automatically. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try dollar bank. I have free mac, and checking with interest. i think there is a $1000 minimum though. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In article , you write: |> What I want from a bank is an ATM card that is on the Plus system, |> free checking, no service charges, free ATM usage on any ATM affiliated |> with the Plus system in the world and no hassle. It's not the end |> of the world if I have to leave a minimum balance in order to achieve this. I believe PNB offers almost this. For $15/year if you keep a $600 minimum balance: unlimited checking unlimited ATM usage anywhere on any of the systems (Plus, MoneyStation,MAC,Trinet) I think if you keep something like $20K in any of their accounts you get free checking and ATM usage. However, considering the other more profitable ways of stashing your money (mutual funds, etc.), that turns into a very expensive "free" plan. I have the rate schedules at home and can check on details if you'd like. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If a $500 minimum is no problem, I would try go to Dollar Bank. I have used them the entire time I have been in Pittsburgh, and haven't had any problems. (They can be a little slow to send you a new mac card, but if you call a couple times, they will send it out fast.) I pay no ATM fees, and no checking or service charges. The only trouble is that I think the check printing costs are outrageous, like $17/box of 300, so you would be better off selecting cheaper checks or using a separate check printer. I'm not sure if you can do this when you open an account. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In article , you write: >"Free MAC Until '93" -- What's happening? I don't think it meets all your criteria, but my bank/bank card of choice is Pittsburgh National Bank's MACVisa card. This works, of course, like a natural ATM card, but also functions as a Visa card with a difference -- you don't have a credit limit (nor interest penalties), you have a debit limit (whatever is in your account at the moment). To any Visa-participating merchant, it looks like a Visa card, but the money gets sucked directly out of your account, rather than your being billed for it. Since (I presume) PNB stands to make no income from this service (i.e. no interest charges on a carried debt), there is a yearly fee of $15 (I think*). But buying the service also gets you the deal where you don't pay for ATM transactions at all (MAC, non-MAC Plus, or whatever)*. Oh, there is also (for whatever incentive) a 1/2 % rebate on every Visa purchase you make (because of this feature and the convenience, I tend to use it alot (I even buy my groceries with it at the GEagle, Waterworks) and receive more than $15 per year in rebates -- add to that the saved cost of ATM transactions and I make out on the deal). So PNB MACVisa gets you: >What I want from a bank is an ATM card that is on the Plus system, PNB is MAC/TriNet/Money Station/Plus >free checking, I think, with minimum balance or direct deposit (but that may have been phased out -- I seem to recall something along that line, but I was grandfathered and didn't care) > no service charges, not sure what you mean -- service charges I'm aware of (and have probably paid at one time or another :-) ) are: the MACVisa fee, check printing, overdraft penalty, returned check penalty > free ATM usage on any ATM affiliated >with the Plus system in the world and no hassle. I believe this to be true (can only vouch for as far south as SC, as far west as CA (east & north pretty much stop at PA for me :-) ) > It's not the end >of the world if I have to leave a minimum balance in order to achieve this. See above >Any ideas? E-mail or followups to discussion please. I'll summarize >to discussion. > >Dennis (dennis@cs.cmu.edu) > > (* Bet you wondered what all those asterisks were for -- any of this may be wrong -- I just recieved this month's statement along with their annual enclosure of service schedules and fees, but I didn't look closely at it. I'll try to remember to do so to correct anything I've (unintentionally) misinformed you about.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I've been pretty happy with Dollar Bank. I've never had a bank machine charge; there is a minimum balance for this but I don't know what it is. Plain old checking is free; checking with interest is free with a minimum balance (again of unknown, to me, size). I don't know if they're on Plus; I rarely travel, and haven't tried using the card from, say, California. Worth checking out, though. They seem to be generally competent. As a side note, I have only switched banks 3 times in my life, and 2 of those were because the bank I was with had pissed me off in some way (Mellon and Union). The third switch was because of a move. I'll likely be with Dollar until one of the following happens: I move somewhere that they don't go, Integra eats them, or they screw something up. I've been with them since, I think, 1988. Whenever it was that Union decided to institute bank card fees regardless of how high your balance was. Good luck. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In case you don't read opinion, I posted this there "Free MAC Until '93" -- What's happening? I've always been very happy with Equibank and I've heard nasty things about Integra, least of all, the fact they charge too much for ATM usage. I pay $1 a month for ATM usage ($12 a year, since it is taken out only once a year. I believe this is the cheapest rate of the big 3 banks in the city). I have never had a problem with Integra. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dollar Bank doesn't charge for ATM usage if you maintain a minimum balance. I believe the minimum balance is $1000 for checking with interest, $500 for checking without interest. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for relaying this horrible news. I've been a very happy equibank customer for 5 years now. I hope they don't lower their quality to match integra's standards (or lack thereof) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I would greatly appreciate any information you get. I also have been using Equibank and have been very happy with their service and choices. And have heard anger at Integra. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let me know what you find out -- I currently use equibank too, and if they're going to start charging for MAC, I'm going to move my money. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I bank with Integra and have never had a problem. In fact, I've found them to be better than Mellon, Dollar or PNB. I've never used Equibank because my father uses them and I've helped him struggle through quite a few problems that cost him money. As a CMU CS direct depositor, Integra (Shadyside branched) waived my MAC fees and I've never paid even 1 quarter for the usage. There had been posts on the bulletin boards when Integra took over Horizon. Horizon customers called the Shadyside branch and spoke with a particular person (but I don't remember who) and she simply waived all MAC fees. I'm not sure if this wavier is still possible, but as long as you're investigating new banks, you might as well call them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dollar Bank may have what you want if you keep a minimum balance of maybe $1000(?) but I'm not sure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "Free MAC Until '93" -- What's happening? > > I've always been very happy with Equibank and I've heard nasty things > about Integra, least of all, the fact they charge too much for ATM usage. > >I pay $1 a month for ATM usage ($12 a year, since it is taken out only once a >year. I believe this is the cheapest rate of the big 3 banks in the city). The big bad Mellon bank just started what they call the ``smart account'' or some such. Free ATM usage, free checks, if you keep $5000 or more in your account. Dunno how competitive is their interest rates, so maybe you're effectively paying a monthly fee anyhow. The brochure didn't say the limits on free ATM usage, but I called their info number, and they say free MAC anywhere and free Cirrus only in the following states: DE FL MD NH NJ NY WV. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ As I understand it, you need to be doing $5000 worth of business with them/month -- ie, combined totals on CD's, savings, checking, and loans (don't know if credit card balances apply here or not). There's no minimum checking balance requirement. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "Free MAC Until '93" -- What's happening? > > I've always been very happy with Equibank and I've heard nasty things > about Integra, least of all, the fact they charge too much for ATM usage. > >I pay $1 a month for ATM usage ($12 a year, since it is taken out only once a >year. I believe this is the cheapest rate of the big 3 banks in the city). > >I have never had a problem with Integra. Parkvale charges $4 a year for their MAC card, with no per-transaction fee on Plus-networked MAC machines (at least locally, I'm not sure about long-distance transactions). But they do have a per-transaction fee for machines on other networks (e.g. Cirrus, which seems to be more common in Pittsburgh). Mellon has a per-transaction fee for Plus-networked MACs, so that won't meet one of Dennis' requirements. Parkvale offers an interest-bearing checking account and will waive the minimum balance requirement if you have direct deposit. Mellon will do something similar for their non-interest-bearing checking account. Mellon also has easier-to-read statements :-) (e.g. MAC transactions are listed with both the transaction date and the posting date). I've been happy with Parkvale, but the branch locations aren't as convenient as Integra or Mellon. I used to bank with Union National/Integra, but I got fed up with their attitudes (esp. at the Oakland branch) and policies. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mellon Bank -- free ATM if you use Mellon Mac machines which are in every Giant Eagle, among other places. 0.75 for non-Mellon Mac machines 1.50 for Cirrus free checking with direct deposit Caveat: Mellon is not a "small town bank" and I wouldn't bank there if it was. At the SqHill and University (5th & Craig) branches, they tend to be impersonal and efficient and I like it that way. I also don't pay attention to interest rates since I only keep a checking account that holds enough money to pay one month's worth of bills. Anything over that goes into mutual funds. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I arrived in Pittsburgh last fall, and shopped around for a cheap bank with free ATM usage etc. The only one I found was Dollar Bank, which requires a $2000 minimum. So I took my money there. But I'm now thinking I made a mistake: their statements are badly organized (although perhaps that's universal), ATM's at other banks often don't work (presumably because some server of Dollar Bank's is down), and I'm beginning to wonder whether my money's really safe at all... So it looks like it's off to Mellon, unless someone has a better idea... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ West View Savings Bank has all you want but they don't have many branches. Before interest rates fell so low, they also had better rates than any other bank I checked. (now they all seem to be about the same.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I use Dollar. We keep a lot in there so we pay for none of those things. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dollar Bank fits a number of your catagories. They have free checking, no service charge, free ATM usage on any *MAC* network machine, and are on PLUS. However, use of machines from the PLUS-MAC (that's set subtraction, in case you didn't notice) costs $1.50, last time I checked. There is a minimum balance required for this, but I don't know what it is; I don't think it is too high. Perhaps at a higher balance, the PLUS charge disappears, too. I've heard that Mellon has a reasonable service if you keep a reasonably large balance with them (I think it is $5000, but I'm not sure). I don't know, since I've always hated Mellon, even though I keep a small account with them, since every once in a while I find myself somewhere where, for some obscure reason, only their bank card works. I assume it is some banking version of Murphy's Law. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ if you travel regularly and are a frequent MAC user, the best deal i've found is with Pittsburgh National Bank. transactions on out-of-town machines seem to result in outrageous fees ($1.25 and higher) with every MAC card i've seen, with the exception of the PNB MAC/Visa card. the cost is a flat $15/year for this card, and you get unlimited transactions on ANY network absolutely anywhere. the card is also a Visa debit card (not credit) that can be used in place of cheques at any merchant/estab that takes Visa. i found it appealing to pay $1.25/month and never worry about what network i'm using. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Unless things have drastically changed, DO NOT go to Mellon. In the past, they had a variety of serious failings, the worst, to me, being unhelpful, malevolent tellers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I've been banking with Dollar Bank since 1981, and have yet to have a problem with them. Their interest rates on CD's etc. have never been that good, so I've always gone to other banks for that stuff, but the regular savings and no-minimum-balance free-checking have been fine. I'm getting bummed out about this takeover stuff though. First Federal had some of the best CD rates in the city, then PGH National took them over, good-bye good rates and friendly banking. (Bank checks used to cost me NOTHING at First Fed., now PNB wants $9 a piece for 'em!) So I got my next CD at Equibank (they had really good rates for a while), now I hear Integra is taking them over. Blech. Of course noone's interests rates are good now, but the bummer is that the large congomerates are taking over all the decent banks, and they charge more for stuff that really can't be costing them as much as the smaller banks becuase of the volume of business they are doing. They just have everyone under the gun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visa type debit cards (as opposed to MAC type) scare me silly. If you lose it, or it is stolen, as the crook spends your money it drops out of your account. Perhaps you are still only liable for the first n dollars taken out, but you still have to get your money _back_ rather than not pay a bill. Any comments? Is this totally bogus? I want a bank where I can pay a small (<$15/year) for all the ATM transactions that I make without a debit card and allowing me to use all MAC machines, and preferably the plus network. If Equibank changes their policy I think they'll lose a lot of people. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What I want from a bank is an ATM card that is on the Plus system, > free checking, no service charges, free ATM usage on any ATM affiliated > with the Plus system in the world and no hassle. It's not the end > of the world if I have to leave a minimum balance in order to achieve this. I think you will find Integra offers this... at least I have it and it includes interest-bearing checking. The main requirement is to specify integra for direct deposit of your paycheck (there might also be some min balance, like $500.) Check it out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------