Return-Path: Received: from CS.CMU.EDU by K.GP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa18664; 20 Jul 95 15:43:43 EDT Received: from GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU by CS.CMU.EDU id aa25202; 20 Jul 95 15:41:08 EDT Received: by GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA41428; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:40:57 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:40:57 -0400 Message-Id: <9507201940.AA41428@GS213.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Darrell Kindred To: bovik+@cs.cmu.edu Subject: pgh banks, checking, debit cards, etc. Harry, Here's a zephyr conversation from today in which people discuss good local checking accounts (Dollar Bank seems to be the current favorite), debit cards, and related things. - Darrell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dkindred (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:23] (context) the old "what's a good bank" thread: Does Dollar still look like the best deal for checking? They have 2% interest with no ATM or other fees and $1K minimum balance. Does anything better exist? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ralph (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:24] (context) I can only offer anecdotal evidence: I've been significantly happier since switching from Integra to Dollar. At Dollar, I feel like they treat me like a human. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jch (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:24] (context) Yeah, I switched from Integra to Dollar also ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- terra (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:25] (context) I have an obscure intro account with Integra. No minimum balance, probably just a small interest, free ATM from Integra's atms, 8 check/month max. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mthomas (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:24] (context) I think both mellon and pnc have good deals if you maintain large deposits (at mellon certain loans also count towards this minimum balance) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dkindred (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:26] (context) I'm switching from Parkvale (used to have better interest rates, used to have free Trinet ATM, now it's 1.5% and $0.50 per non-Parkvale ATM use, plus $6/yr). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mthomas (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:27] (context) at mellon: large balance > 5k$; good deal == free MAC, free travelers checks, other stuff which I forget and don't use... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:27] (context) I like PNC because there are more PNC MACs around than any other Pgh bank. PNC doesn't charge me to use their own bank machines because I'm on the Prime Plan, which gives you a bunch of freebies in exchange for a monthly fee. The monthly fee is waived if you keep at least $5k in your accounts. These freebies include free cashier's checks (same as money orders or certified cheques), free checks for your checking accounts, free VISA and MC cards, free MAC VISA debit card, and other stuff I don't remember. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mthomas (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:29] (context) I think north side deposit is similar to dollar bank; but they only have offices on the north side/north hills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lowekamp (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:29] (context) Mellon gives you free access to their MACs and no monthly fee with a $500min or $1000avg monthly balance. (standard checking, not interest) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dkindred (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:29] (context) Mellon and PNC lose. Their "premium" checking accts are 1.25-1.5% interest. Dollar it is. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- davide (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:30] (context) I think Dollar is also free MAC with $500 min in no-interest checking. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jch (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:29] (context) Dollar Bank gives you free ATM usage *anywhere*, though. Either $1k checking, or $3k in a linked savings account. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:30] (context) Does Dollar give you free MAC outside the "tri-state" (wghatever that is) area? What about Hawaii or other foreign countries? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- davide (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:30] (context) And, yes, free MAC means free even in Canada or California or Ecuador. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jkr (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:30] (context) The best deal I've seen recommended is: Fidelity Savings Bank, 4719 Liberty Ave., Bloomfield, 682-0311 near West Penn Hospital, takes about 30 minutes to walk from Pitt, but you only have to go there once, to open the account "Advantage Checking" $100 minimum balance to avoid $7 fee for unlimited free checking $0.75/month for unlimited MAC transactions ($1 for non-MAC PLUS) automatically pays 2% interest if your balance is above $400 free overdraft protection (if you overdraw the difference is a loan, no transaction fee for this service such as at Mellon, which charges $15/year and $5/transaction for the same thing) some other small perks such as free Visa/Mastercard, free notary service, a bunch of coupons and discounts, miscellaneous insurance you'll never use, and credit card registration / lost key return services also no-minimum balance savings (3%) and great CD rates with $500 minimum unless noted (6 month 6.01 APY, 12 month 6.11 APY, 12 month "quick access" (can withdraw money without penalty any time after 7 days) 5.64 APY with $10,000 minimum, 18 month "one up" (can increase rate once during term to current rate) 6.33 APY) Plus Fidelity Savings is a nice neighborhood oriented bank, much unlike the octopus-like world domination oriented Integra (Mellon, PNC, etc.) I would love it if a bunch of Integra customers would switch over. If you do, tell them you heard about them on the net! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mthomas (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:30] (context) what is the interest on dollar's premium checking ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dkindred (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:31] (context) 2%. That's with $1k minimum balance (I'll ask whether min balance is waived with direct deposit). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:33] (context) Lag. BTW, this whole conversation should probably get mailed to bovik. I've recently started sending stories of my experiences to bovik, in the hopes that it will sometime in the near future have current data. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dkindred (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:33] (context) yes, I'll forward this thread to bovik when it's done. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:35] (context) I realize PNC is out of the running, but as a datapoint in case it affects anyone: Those of you who started distrusting Integra when they changed all their MAC cards to MasterCard debit cards may start distrusting PNC now, as they are turning all their MAC cards into Visa debit cards. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ghn (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:35] (context) My understanding of the Dollar policy is: free mac anywhere on any of the systems they're on, including MoneyStation, Plus, and MAC. I believe I've used it from, e.g. Nebraska without a fee. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jch (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:35] (context) I went PNC -> Equibank (who were cool) -> Integra (when Integra took over Equibank, booo) -> Dollar (who are also cool) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bnoble (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:36] (context) Is PNC also turning all MAC fees off? (They used to trade you $15/year for a Visa debit for free MAC in the known universe.0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- davide (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:36] (context) I started distrusting Integra when they bought Equibank. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:36] (context) It seems to me that a MAC VISA debit card is a superset (ie superior) to a simple MAC card, and PNC has had these debit cards as long as I've been here, so I don't see how that would make anyone distrust them. ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks.d.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:36] (context) Personally, I like the debit cards, but that's me.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mthomas (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:37] (context) Mellon has also changed their MAC cards to MasterCard debit cards ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dkindred (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:37] (context) the debit cards are somewhat more fraud-prone, right (no PIN needed)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lowekamp (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:37] (context) Is this something Mellon has just started? I have a regular MAC card. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:38] (context) only if you use them to pay for purchases. If you use them to take out money from a MAC, you still need a PIN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bnoble (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:38] (context) From memory, it seems that the biggest problem was no liability limit. Normal credit cards have a liability limit of $50, assuming prompt reporting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dkindred (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:38] (context) and higher liability limits than credit cards, or am I misremembering? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:38] (context) (ie no more fraud prone than a regular credit card) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mthomas (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:39] (context) I got my Mellon MasterMoney card three(?) months ago; they mailed it to me but didn't force me to use it ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ghn (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:39] (context) Banks are funny, though. Just because you have an account with X features doesn't mean that someone *else* can still get that kind of account. I had an account at Midlantic in NJ (recently bought by PNC, I think) and while I still had free Mac, $1000 minimum balance unlimited checking with interest, they were no longer providing accounts with free mac, and no longer had checking with interest for new customers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:40] (context) $15 at PNC now buys you a "Visa Gold Check Card" with no MAC fees in the known universe, et cetera. Also has higher ATM daily withdrawl ($1000) and Visa purchase ($5000) limits than mere mortal PNC "Visa Check Card"'s ($500 and $1000, respectively, I think). (I just received my gold card the other day, which is how I know all this) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jl (help.banks) [20-Jul-1995, 14:41] (context) Is the PNC VISA (I also got the gold visa) free? I mean, why did us $15-paying sobs qualify for gold? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:42] (context) And PNC has assured me in the past that the liablities on a lost/stolen Visa debit card are *exactly* the same as on a Visa credit card -- With the exception that they'll suck the $50 right out of your account instead of sending you a bill for it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bnoble (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:45] (context) Seems like they'd have to put all but the first $50 back *into* your account, with all the attendant overdraft possibilities, no? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:45] (context) Juan: You qualified for gold by paying the $15 Ain't the USA great? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:46] (context) Huh? I thought there was no way to get VISA Gold unless your income was high enough, like > $30k or $40k (depending on bank). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bnoble (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:47] (context) Allan: I'm living proof that this is not true. Something recently changed in my spending patterns, 'cause over the last say six months, I've been getting *lots* of the Gold Ones. (As in "nooo, Daaaady, I waaaan't the Gold One!") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:48] (context) You've been getting Gold cards or getting "invitations" (even "pre-approved") to apply for Gold Cards? I've gotten tons of invitations, but all the ones I've send in so far have denied me the actual cards. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ghn (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:48] (context) Well, I got a Visa Gold with no annual fee -- they called me up on the phone and said "we sent you this offer but you didn't respond, are you sure you don't want the card?" I was mostly asleep but managed to get a commitment from them that the didn't charge an annual fee, no matter what. So I said sure whatever and they sent me the card. I never even filled out a form asking my income. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jch (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:48] (context) Getting gold cards as a grad student is easy. You just give your gross income (before tuition is deducted) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dkindred (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:49] (context) I get pre-approved gold offers constantly, and have an AT&T Gold visa. Maybe I got on the list during some summer job or something. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bnoble (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:50] (context) Well, they're the gold pre-approved, and they keep sending 'em to me. Actually, ATT just upgraded me, no questions asked. It just came in the mail. The funny thing is I have *no* idea what I did to get myself kicked up into the next plane, and it worries me that I don't know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bnoble (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:51] (context) s/sending 'em/sending cards/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jl (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:51] (context) What Allan said regarding 30K minimums i ignored regularly. I don't have regular cards and I didn't ask and I didn't pay for the gold ones they sent me, and no, my income was nowhere near 30k. Now, the free PNC visa debit that they just started up, are charges for ATMs same as before? I mean, I don't give a shit about the gold and I am concerned they are selling me the glitter for $15. Allan: why do you want gold? who cares? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:51] (context) PNC Visa Gold Check card -- It's a *fake* gold card -- The spending limits I posted earlier are, of course, "subject to available balance". I.e. your daily spending limit is $5000 or whatever-is-in-your-account, whichever is smaller. I presume the gold-ness is merely to distinguish us $15-payers from the unwashed masses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bnoble (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:52] (context) The gold cards have better limits, which are useful for conference travel etc. The other "perks" don't matter for diddly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ghn (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:53] (context) Actually the one reason I didn't flat out say no to the gold card is the double-your-warranty feature. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rempel (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:53] (context) Some Gold Cards provide insurance for when you're traveling, something I've become very interested in of late. (Of course, my ISIC now does that too, so I don't care too much any more.) Besides, Gold looks k00001! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bnoble (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:53] (context) The double-your-warranty is almost always meaningless. Failures follow the bathtub curve: it either fails right away, or not for a very long time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:54] (context) Juan: AFAIK Mere mortal PNC Visa debit card holders (free) will still pay for transactions, for non-PNC, non-Plus, et cetera. Gold cardholders ($15) will not pay MAC/Plus/ATM related fees. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ghn (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:55] (context) I know, thats why I still put almost everything on my USAir card. But no annual fee, so no great loss, and it turned out to be really handy when we filled up the credit limit on the USAir card with Susan's tuition. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- spok (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:55] (context) I think at this point 'gold' doesn't have much more guaranteed meaning than 'upscale marketing buzzword'. It seems to suggest higher limits, but doesn't always. It also seems to suggest extra features, but depending on the card, those might not be more than on 'standard' cards (like ATT's rental car insurance on its standard card) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pwp (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:55] (context) Don't ever let a bank charge you to use their own money machines. You are saving them money by using the thing, instead of bothering a human teller. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:57] (context) BTW, the PNC gold does come with the perq's. Purchases I make on it are protected against damage by, e.g., "Aircraft, spacecraft and other vehicles" (according to the tiny-print that came with it). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ghn (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:58] (context) So buy your car with the card, and you don't need damage insurance? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- roc (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:58] (context) ... if it gets hit by a falling satellite? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jl (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:58] (context) That (human vs automated tellers) is true regardless of what machine you use. I am glad banks (eg, Citibank) are starting to think that they should incentivate their savings rather than try to make petty profits from a perception of technological convenience. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- spok (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 14:59] (context) WOuld be nice :) No, the usual credit card car ins. only applies to collision damage on rentals. (But it does cover you if a satellite hits your rental car.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- roc (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 15:00] (context) Well, that's a relief. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tfm (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 15:00] (context) Won't work for a car -- More tiny print from memory: "... blah blah blah, purchases you make, up to $500, are protected blah blah blah ..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- petel (help.banks.d) [20-Jul-1995, 15:01] (context) steve rudich told me he got his platinum card by charging a new car (and then paying it off with a car loan). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------